Topic Title: Message for Epyx
| |  "Message for Epyx"
, Fri 27 Jun 20:26
Hi Epyx,
It's been a long time, but here I am again asking for your input and support on the www.webmd.com , Medications and Treatments web site. The posts I am referring are in "Over the Counter (by lone123 - 6/26/2003)". I get so "put off" by some people that if I were to respond one more time I would come off sounding as if I just had to get the last word in. So, if you feel up to it, I would really appreciate it if you could contribute some of your words of wisdom and knowledge concerning over-the-counter antidepressants.
Many thanks,
Helen
Posts: 33 | | Registered: Tue 2 Apr 2002 11:9 |
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| | "Re(1):Message for Epyx" , Sun 29 Jun 06:08
That's a hard battle to win. I recommended this web sit and paxilprogress.org and the public reply from staff used the word "alarmist" to describe the sites. I protested to WebMD and the staff person replied that I was right and deleted the word, but by then many had read it.
Also, many on this site are very suicidal and also some do get help from antidpressants.
But I go to sites like this because of the positive view that you can take steps to be responsible for how you feel without denying it. Plus I prefer alternative stuff after 4 days of Paxil and 4 days of weird withdrawal. It just works better for me if I think that I am responsible and in control. And I notice that many (not all) on WebMD spend energy on what they cannot do rather than what they can do. It's not that that is wrong -- it just is not helpful.
In other words you do things like mediate, exercise, read etc. not because you should, but because you MUST.
Again, thanks to everyone on this board and Kelly. This web site and paxilprogress.org have been the biggest help to me over the last few months. My life has not been a cake walk recently. I pretty much lost everything trying to help a drug addicted nephew for the last 3 years. I had 3 houses, one of which was a house on a creek on the ocean where I was going to retire and use all alternitive energy and garden organically -- i was going to use wind power, water power through the tides, and grow all my own vegetables and run it as a guest house for folks from France. The house was one I got at a decent price on Tybee Island, GA. So do I have a lot to be depressed about especially since it didn't work with the nephew and I have not heard from him since he turned 17?
Yep! But web sites like this are the ones turn to.
Question to anyone who has thoughts? Do you believe that you can change your depression even though it has biological components and also genetic origins?
Thanks again to all on this board and Kelly.
Posts: 17 | | Registered: Sat 24 May 2003 19:34 |
| | | "Message for Epyx" , Sun 29 Jun 22:19
Hi Theres,
I appreciate your input regarding the webmd site. Interesting that you recommended paxilprogress.org, because I am very familiar with that site. In October of 2001 I stopped Paxil cold turkey after having taken it for 7 years. I happened across paxilprogress as I was researching information on Paxil, and once I began reading the posts, I knew I could not ingest even one more tablet of that poison. I went through 2 months of a terrible withdrawal, with paxilprogress as my constant companion.
As the withdrawal effects diminished, the depression and anxiety returned. Not wanting to go back on antidepressant drugs, I found this wonderful site, and began several months of trying SAM-e, then 5-HTP and finally SJW. I held back on trying SJW because I am on coumadin, and SJW reduces the effectiveness of coumadin. In desperation I began taking SJW. I get my INR (how thin my blood is) checked every couple of weeks. After 2 weeks on SJW, my GP said my INR was much too low, and what was I doing differently. I told her I was taking SJW, to which she responded that I should stop taking it immediately or she would not keep me as a patient. Unfortunately, I really felt that the SJW was beginning work. Since she wasn't willing to work with me to increase the coumadin to bring my INR to the correct level, and since we have a real shortage of doctors in Guelph, I knew I had no choice but to return to antidepressant drugs, and have been on Effexor for the past year. My anxiety and depression are being well controlled by the Effexor, along with an exercise program and the love and support of a wonderful family and friends.
I'm sorry you are having difficulties, and I wish you the very best.
Helen
Posts: 35 | | Registered: Tue 2 Apr 2002 11:9 |
| | "Re(1):Message for Epyx" , Sun 29 Jun 01:31
Hi Helen,
I've stuck my 2 cents into that thread, but even I feel a sense of exasperation reading that discussion. I feel the same sense of despair I feel when I consider posting at depressionet.com.au (an Australian board).
I'm not anti-pharmaceutical, but I intensely dislike the way pharmaceutical manufacturers get away with treating the public as "consumers" rather than "patients". Western medical systems over-medicate patients and doctors are encouraged to treat everything with drugs. To me, this is especially insidious in the case of depression. I view depression primarily as a disorder of thought and action. This most likely has neurotransmitter consequences, but if we view depression purely in biochemical terms, then we allow people to avoid personal responsibility altogether. To me, this perpetuates the role of patient-as-consumer and discourages people from being an active participant in the healing process.
This old-timer sure does ramble.
Epyx
Posts: 604 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
| | | "Message for Epyx" , Sun 29 Jun 13:27
Hi Epyx!
Many thanks for coming through once again. Your responses are always based on knowledge, intelligence, and solid facts that are backed up by studies, and that's what's missing on the webmd board. Most people just throw out information (misinformation actually) helter skelter whether it has any basis in fact or not. Most of the time I just ignore responses like that, but once in a while something really bugs me. I cannot abide people who say something doesn't work just because it didn't work for them, or that something is wrong when it might be right for someone else. And when they chide me for taking things too personally, that really raises my ire. In re-reading some earlier posts, someone asked if there are any herbal antidepressants that work, and the responder said "definitely not"! Ugh!
Could you please go one step further, Epyx? The "over the counter" thread began and ended several days ago, and I'm not sure if tankgrl or sparrow will read it. For the benefit of anyone who is interested in correct information, could you please begin a new thread saying something like "For Tankgrl re over the counter", or something to that effect? I would be most appreciative, and thank you again for taking the time and interest. It's been nice communicating with you again, and I hope all is well with you.
Thank you also theres and DuPont for your posts. I will respond to each of you separately.
Regards,
Helen
Posts: 34 | | Registered: Tue 2 Apr 2002 11:9 |
| | | "Re(2):Message for Epyx" , Sun 29 Jun 07:43
I have to agree epyx. The pharmaceuticals as well as some doctors perpetuate the idea that you can take a pill to solve your "problems". When most of the time what is needed is a prescription to take personal responsibility and a change in lifestyle in order to heal.
MJ DuPont
Posts: 559 | | Registered: Wed 20 Jun 2001 6:19 |
| | | "Message for Epyx" , Mon 30 Jun 13:49
Hi DuPont,
I appreciate your views on this subject, however, I'm afraid I must disagree with you. Although I have suffered from depression since my late teen years (which is when depression frequently begins), it was not diagnosed and treated until the anxiety began to accompany it, which was about 10 years ago, many years past my late teens.
There is substantial evidence, I believe there is even definite proof, that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. It is a physical as well as an emotional illness. It is not caused by "problems", it is an illness than can happen even when everything in your life is wonderful. Also, you can no more treat it by "taking personal responsibility" and "changing your lifestyle" than a diabetic can treat diabetes in that manner. There are some illnesses that need to be treated either by taking pharmaceutical drugs or herbal remedies.
Anyone who has ever been in a deep and severe clinical depression lacks the ability to do much of anything during the course of the day. Sometimes an attempt to even get through the day itself is more than some people can handle. That is why so many depressed people commit suicide. Diet, exercise and an attempt to change one's lifestyle is better done after the depression has been confronted and brought under control, most often by taking antidepressants.
Regards,
Helen
Posts: 36 | | Registered: Tue 2 Apr 2002 11:9 |
| | | "Re(1):Message for Epyx" , Fri 4 Jul 18:10:
Helen,
I don't think it's correct to say that "depression is caused by a chemical imbalance". The jury is still out on the causes of depression. In fact, it's really yet another manifestation of the nature/nurture argument i.e. whether the prime cause is biological or environmental (or both). Twin studies show that a predisposition or vulnerability to depression appears to be inherited, but this does not indicate causation. It seems to be a combination of factors, and the origins can be different in different people.
My point was more along the lines of saying that I think it's a trap to think of depression as biological in general. It leads a lot of moderately-depressed people to seek refuge in medication rather than making changes to the behaviours that trigger and perpetuate their depression. We shouldn't extrapolate from severe depression and assume that all depression should be treated in that fashion either.
The comparison to diabetes is interesting. Adult-onset diabetes (or whatever the trendy name is for it these days) is often preventable through diet or exercise, and is managed afterwards in a similar fashion. Medication is optional for many patients. When it comes down to it, many such patients abrogated their personal responsibility to their health through poor lifestyle and dietary choices. I think you can see where I am going with this. It's an unsympathetic view of illness, but there you have it.
You've also got to consider the results of placebo-controlled trials of anti-depressants. If a trial shows that 50% vs 42% of people responded in both groups, how do we interpret this? The researchers will trumpet the success of the the active substance, but 42% responded to placebo! That suggests that 80% of drug responders would actually respond without medication ... food for thought 
Epyx
[this message was edited by Epyx on Sat 5 Jul 04:32]
Posts: 606 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
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