Topic Title: Please help
| |  "Please help"
, Thu 13 Oct 05:46
Hi All
I really need your advice These are my previous post's
I posted last week about my experience with 5-htp and how my dose of 50 mg a day for the last four month's has popped out and I started to feel my anxiety coming back again .Resulting in a panic attack in work. I increase the dose in the last few days to 50 in the morning and 50 in the evening and to-day my panic attack was more severe. I had to lock my self in the toilet in work and take 2 1/2 xanax tabs to relax the panic attack. I need help with the dose do I keep to the current dose wait and see or up the dose again to say 150mg or to 200mg.Please please let us know if you have any advice or experince.Thanks everyone! .I upped my dose to 150mg for the last week still not getting any relive like I did with the original dose of 50mg.I still fell lots of anxiety all day long even when I am setting at home watch the TV. I wake up every day now dreading the day because of the anxiety. The last few days I started taking 200mg a day spaced out between meals and I stared to get stomach cramps and still I have the anxiety. My question is at 50 mg for four months I felt the best I ever did at the increase dose of 150 to 200 mg I feel like the way I did before I took the 5-htp.Come on guy's i really need some one to give me some advice!
Posts: 26 | | Registered: Mon 9 May 2005 3:19 |
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| | "Re(1):Please help" , Thu 20 Oct 08:26
Herbie is on to something with the green tea. I just go straight for a 100mg dose of L-Theanine (Suntheanine, patented. Lots of good info on this on the net. I got Vitamine Shoppe brand 60caps for 12.00. The best money I've ever spent trying suppliments. I've tried SJW, 5HTP, SAMe,bottles of every vitamin, fish oil, flax, ect. L-Theanine works in about 30 minutes and "shuts up my brain" and reduces my anxiety and allows me to focus, organinze, and for the first time in many years, not feel driven or wound up inside.
Posts: 27 | | Registered: Thu 6 Mar 2003 12:38 |
| | "Anxiety due to serotonine or norepinephrine?" , Tue 18 Oct 13:18
Hi Hurled!
I have no experience with 5-htp but as long as I know it only helps defficiency of serotonine while anxiety and panik attaks are mainly related to norepinephrine. Lots of 5HTP would calm the restlesness caused by low serotonine levels but eventualy increase general anxiety.
These are few explanations I gathered from the net. Hope they will help, if not please excuse the long post:
``When Serotonin is low, we experience problems with concentration and attention. We become scatterbrained and poorly organized. Routine responsibilities now seem overwhelming. It takes longer to do things because of poor planning. We lose our car keys and put odd things in the refrigerator. We call people and forget why we called or go to the grocery and forget what we needed. We tell people the same thing two or three times.
As stress continues and our Serotonin level continues to drop, we become more depressed. At this point, moderately low or “two quarts” low, major changes occur in those bodily functions regulated by Serotonin. When Serotonin is moderately low, we have the following symptoms and behaviors:
• Chronic fatigue. Despite sleeping extra hours and naps, we remain tired. There is a sense of being “worn out”
• Sleep disturbance, typically we can’t go to sleep at night as our mind/thought is racing. Patients describe this as “My mind won’t shut up!” Early-morning awakening is also common, typically at 4:00 am, at which point returning to sleep is difficult, again due to the racing thoughts.
• Appetite disturbance is present, usually in two types. We experience a loss of appetite and subsequent weight loss or a craving for sweets and carbohydrates when the brain is trying to make more Serotonin.
• Total loss of sexual interest is present. In fact, there is loss of interest in everything, including those activities and interests that have been enjoyed in the past.
• Social withdrawal is common – not answering the phone, rarely leaving the house/apartment, we stop calling friends and family, and we withdraw from social events.
• Emotional sadness and frequent crying spells are common.
• Self-esteem and self-confidence are low.
• Body sensations, due to Serotonin’s role as a body regulator, include hot flushes and temperature changes, headaches, and stomach distress.
• Loss of personality – a sense that our sense of humor has left and our personality has changed.
• We begin to take everything very personally. Comments, glances, and situations are viewed personally and negatively. If someone speaks to you, it irritates you. If they don’t speak, you become angry and feel ignored.
• Your family will have the sense that you have “faded away”. You talk less, smile less, and sit for hours without noticing anyone.
• Your behavior becomes odd. Family members may find you sitting in the dark in the kitchen at 4:00 am.
Individuals can live many years moderately depressed. They develop compensations for the sleep and other symptoms, using sleeping medication or alcohol to get some sleep. While chronically unhappy and pessimistic, they explain their situation with “It’s just my life!” They may not fully recognize the depressive component.
Very low levels of Serotonin typically bring people to the attention of their family physician, their employer, or other sources of help. Severe Serotonin loss produces symptoms that are difficult to ignore. Not only are severe symptoms present, but also the brain’s ideation/thinking becomes very uncomfortable and even torturing. When Serotonin is severely low, you will experience some if not all of the following:
• Thinking speed will increase. You will have difficulty controlling your own thoughts. The brain will focus on torturing memories and you’ll find it difficult to stop thinking about these uncomfortable memories or images.
• You’ll become emotionally numb! You wouldn’t know how you feel about your life, marriage, job, family, future, significant other, etc. It’s as though all feelings have been turned off. Asked by others how you feel – your response might be “I don’t know!”
• Outbursts will begin, typically two types. Crying outbursts will surface, suddenly crying without much warning. Behavioral outbursts will also surface. If you break the lead in a pencil, you throw the pencil across the room. Temper tantrums may surface. You may storm out of offices or public places.
• Escape fantasies will begin. The most common – Hit the Road! The brain will suggest packing up your personal effects and leaving the family and community.
• Memory torture will begin. Your brain, thinking at 100 miles an hour, will search your memories for your most traumatic or unpleasant experiences. You will suddenly become preoccupied with horrible experiences that may have happened ten, twenty, or even thirty years ago. You will relive the death of loved ones, divorce, childhood abuse – whatever the brain can find to torture you with – you’ll feel like it happened yesterday.
• You’ll have Evil Thoughts. New mothers may have thoughts about smothering their infants. Thoughts of harming or killing others may appear. You may be tortured by images/pictures in your memory. It’s as though the brain finds your most uncomfortable weak spot, then terrorizes you with it.
• With Serotonin a major bodily regulator, when Serotonin is this low your body becomes unregulated. You’ll experience changes in body temperature, aches/pains, muscle cramps, bowel/bladder problems, smothering sensations, etc. The “Evil Thoughts” then tell you those symptoms are due to a terminal disease. Depressed folks never have gas – it’s colon cancer. A bruise is leukemia.
• You’ll develop a Need-for-Change Panic. You’ll begin thinking a change in lifestyle (Midlife Crisis!), a divorce, an extramarital affair, a new job, or a Corvette will change your mood. About 70 percent of jobs are lost at this time as depressed individuals gradually fade away from their life. Most extramarital affairs occur at this time.
• As low Serotonin levels are related to obsessive-compulsive disorders, you may find yourself starting to count things, become preoccupied with germs/disease, excessively worry that appliances are turned off or doors locked, worry that televisions must be turned off on an even-numbered channel, etc. You may develop rituals involving safety and counting. One auto assembly plant worker began believing his work would curse automobiles if their serial number, when each number was added, didn’t equal an even number.
• Whatever normal personality traits, quirks, or attitudes you have, they will suddenly be increased three-fold. A perfectionist will suddenly become anxiously overwhelmed by the messiness of their environment or distraught over leaves that fall each minute to land on the lawn. Penny-pinchers will suddenly become preoccupied with the electric and water consumption in the home.
• A “trigger” event may produce bizarre behavior. Already moderately low in Serotonin, an animal bite or scratch may make you suddenly preoccupied with rabies. A media story about the harmful effects of radiation may make you remember a teenage tour of the local nuclear power plant – suddenly feeling all your symptoms are now the result of exposure to radiation.
• When you reach the bottom of “severely low” Serotonin, the “garbage truck” will arrive. Everyone with severely low Serotonin is told the same thing. You will be told 1) You’re a bad spouse, parent, child, employee, etc., 2) You are a burden to those who love or depend on you, 3) You are worsening the lives of those around you, 4) Those who care about you would be better if you weren’t there, 5) You would be better if you weren’t around, and 6) You and those around you would be better off if you were totally out of the picture. At that point, you develop suicidal thoughts.
Clinical Depression is perhaps the most common mental health problem encountered in practice. One in four adults will experience clinical depression within their lifetime. Depression is the “common cold” of mental health practice – very common and much easier to treat today than in the past.
Treatment for depression, as might be expected, involves increasing levels of Serotonin in the brain.
Like all neurotransmitters, we can have too much Serotonin. While elevated levels of Serotonin produce a sense of well-being, bliss, and “oneness with the universe” – too much Serotonin can produce a life-threatening condition known as Serotonin Syndrome (SS).
Likely to occur by accident by combining two Serotonin-increasing medications or substances, Serotonin Syndrome (SS) produces violent trembling, profuse sweating, insomnia, nausea, teeth chattering, chilling, shivering, aggressiveness, over-confidence, agitation, and malignant hyperthermia. Emergency medical treatment is required, utilizing medications that neutralize or block the action of Serotonin as the treatment for Serotonin Syndrome (SS).
Norepinephrine (NE) is the neurotransmitter often associated with the “fight or flight” response to stress. Strongly linked to physical responses and reactions, it can increase heart rate and blood pressure as well as create a sense of panic and overwhelming fear/dread. This neurotransmitter is similar to adrenaline and is felt to set threshold levels to stimulation and arousal. Emotionally, anxiety and depression are related to norepinephrine levels in the brain, as this neurotransmitter seems to maintain the balance between agitation and depression.
Low levels of norepinephrine are associated with a loss of alertness, poor memory, and depression. Norepinephrine appears to be the neurotransmitter of “arousal” and for that reason, lower-than-normal levels of this neurotransmitter produce below-average levels of arousal and interest, a symptom found in several psychiatric conditions including depression and ADHD. It is for this reason that medications for depression and ADHD often target both dopamine and norepinephrine in an attempt to restore both to normal level.
Mild elevations in our norepinephrine levels produce heightened arousal, something known to be produced by stimulants. This arousal is considered pleasurable and several “street drugs” such as cocaine and amphetamines work by increasing the brains level of norepinephrine. This increased sense of arousal is pleasurable, linking these substances to their potential for addiction. Research tells us that some individuals using antidepressants develop a state of “hypomania” or emotional elation and physical arousal in this same manner. For that reason, individuals using modern antidepressants are often cautioned to notify their treating physician/psychiatrist if they become “too happy”.
Moderately high levels of norepinephrine create a sense of arousal that becomes uncomfortable. Remembering that this neurotransmitter is strongly involved in creating physical reactions, moderate increases create worry, anxiety, increased startle reflex, jumpiness, fears of crowds & tight places, impaired concentration, restless sleep, and physical changes. The physical symptoms may include rapid fatigue, muscle tension/cramps, irritability, and a sense of being on edge. Almost all anxiety disorders involve norepinephrine elevations.
Severe and sudden increases in norepinephrine are associated with panic attacks. Perhaps the best way to visualize a panic attack is to remember the association with the “flight or fight” response. The “flight or fight” response is a chemical reaction to a dramatic and threatening situation in which the brain produces excessive amounts of norepinephrine and adrenaline – giving us extra strength, increased energy/arousal, muscle tightness (for fighting or running), and a desperate sense that we must do something immediately. This animal response was activated in early man when a bear showed up at his cave or when faced with a tiger in the woods. In modern times, imagine your reaction if while calmly watching television, someone or something started trying to knock your front door in to attack you. In the “flight or fight” reaction, your brain and body chemistry prepare you to either run from the situation or fight to the death!
A panic attack is the activation of the “flight or fight” chemical reaction without a bear at the door. It’s as though the self-protection animal response is kicking-off accidentally, when no real life-threatening situation is present. Known now as panic attacks, they can surface at the grocery, at church, or when you least expect it. As norepinephrine is a fast-acting neurotransmitter, the panic attack may last less than ten minutes (feels like hours however!) but you’ll be rattled/shaken for several hours. Panic attacks are strong physical and chemical events and include the following symptoms:
• Palpitations, pounding heart or rapid heart rate
• Sweating and body temperature changes
• Trembling or shaking
• Shortness of breath of smothering sensations
• Choking sensations
• Chest pain and discomfort
• Nausea or stomach distress
• Dizziness, lightheadedness, or feeling faint
• Sense of unreality, as though you are outside yourself
• Fear of losing control or going crazy
• Fear of dying
• Numbness and tingling throughout the body
• Chills and hot flushes
If we think about the automobile example, a panic attack is the equivalent of your dashboard warning lights coming on – your stress level is too high. Panic attacks, or surges of norepinephrine, can also occur by accident as when created by the use of certain medications. The medications for certain medical conditions can cause a panic attack or increase our level of anxiety. Medications often used for asthma, for example, can create anxiety or panic attacks.
If the diagnosis is Agitated/Anxious Depression
Neurotransmitter: Low Serotonin
Elevated Norepinephrine``
Posts: 16 | | Registered: Thu 1 Sep 2005 3:28 |
| | "Re(1):Please help" , Thu 13 Oct 07:38:
Hi!
For what its worth:
I drink Green Tea for stress relief. Green Tea contains
Theanine which helps calm you down and its all natural.
It can be bought where you usually buy tea.
I read somwhere that it lowers cortisol levels.
On the other hand, if you are having really bad problems, you really should go see a psychiatrist, but i guess
maybe you already have.
Best of luck!
Herbie
[this message was edited by herbie on Thu 13 Oct 07:39]
Posts: 6 | | Registered: Mon 19 Sep 2005 23:57 |
| | "Re(1):Please help" , Thu 13 Oct 07:16
Hi, sorry I can't give much advice specific to 5HTP- I did try it for a while but I don't think it did much other than give me severe GI upset! I have a sensitive stomach, but I note that you have had some problems with it, so i would approach with caution. I'm not a doctor but basically, from what I understand, 5-HTP allows conversion to Serotonin to occur in the gut (ie. before it gets to the brain) Apparently Serotonin is an important neurotransmitter in the gut as well, so it can be affected by taking 5-HTP. L-tryptophan (the amino acid 5-HTP is derived from)
on the other hand is safe in this regard, in that it will only convert to serotonin in the brain where presumably it is needed. I've tried L-tryptophan as well, and while it certainly didn't make me ill, and I think it helped a little, I'm a bit hesitant to recommend it if only because it's so expensive.
While I think of it, there's other important supplements worth considering for anxiety, not least B-vitamins. I read B6 is particularly important in relation to serotonin. But B vits shouldn't be taken in isolation. Probably best to take a B complex to start off with. I gather if the body is stressed it may have a depletion of B, but I would do some research on google first before deciding what to do.
As for panic attacks I've certainly had my share of those, and still have general anxiety to a degree now, but it's usually focussed on tangible problems rather appearing than for no reason, as used to be the case.
I know from experience in that situation that you will want immediate relief, ( I never went on any meds when mine was at its worst, but you could try Valerian & chamomile, herbs that may help take the edge off) but I would strongly recommend reading any of Claire Weekes books. Her advice is simple but goes against our instinct with panic, which is to try and control it, to feel normal again. She says, allow yourself to feel nervy, but try and disarm the vicious cycle by realising the anxiety itself can do no harm to you- you will not faint or die or any of those things, it is just your body responding inappropriately. I know this sounds easier said than done, but I think if you can cut the monster you've created down to size, you are no longer ruled by it. Don't wait in fear for when it will strike, just carry on, keep yourself occupied AT ALL TIMES! (and preferably be around other people). Keeping busy is very important. And by busy, this does not mean rushing about madly, just make sure you don't have too much time to yourself. I know all too well from experience that you must have distractions from thinking about your condition, or you will inevitably make matters worse.
Also you need to bear in mind that panic attacks can have certain triggers, or just be general ie. not triggered by anything specific. And in any anxiety book they usually advise you have a blood test to rule out hyperthyroidism (over active Thyroid gland) I wish I'd done this earlier as I have now been diagnosed with this, which may well be the cause of my anxiety problems, as well as a host of other concerning bodily symptoms...
Anyway hope that helps.
For fast effective profit own a drug company.
Posts: 158 | | Registered: Wed 14 Apr 2004 23:27 |
| | | "Re(2):Please help" , Thu 13 Oct 11:40
Thanks Guys
I really am thankful for your support. I am running out of time in work at the moment so I can't give a long post but I will respond more next week when I am back in work. Thanks again guy'
Posts: 27 | | Registered: Mon 9 May 2005 3:19 |
| | |  "Re(3):Please help"
, Thu 13 Oct 12:32:
I've tried 5-HTP off and on several times, but each time, it seems to make me more anxious. Perhaps it's just not going to work for you either......perhaps you need to try something else.
[this message was edited by mmf on Fri 14 Oct 10:38]
Posts: 192 | | Registered: Sat 29 Sep 2001 10:2 |
| | | "Re(4):Please help" , Thu 20 Oct 11:37
I have had a couple of rough days but I am getting better thank god. I am not taking anything at the moment. The higher dose just didn't do any thing for me but make me worse.50mg for four months was the best ever but I reckon my body need a break from it. My main problem is anxiety which weakens me to depression. If I can come to terms with the anxiety the depression will stay away. I am going to take a different approach than meds because they only mask the feelings of anxiety and not getting to the root cause of the problem.When i took the 5-htp 50 mg it took away my anxiety within 20 mins and worked wonders for four months but maybe i need a break from it.Thanks again guys
Posts: 29 | | Registered: Mon 9 May 2005 3:19 |
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