Depression, SJW, Rhodiola, and more! READ - http://www.sjwinfo.org Forums
Topic Title: Depression, SJW, Rhodiola, and more! READ
| |  "Depression, SJW, Rhodiola, and more! READ"
, Mon 28 Apr 04:25
This is a rather long post. Its my thoughts related to depression, anxiety, Rhodiola, SJW, and other things in general. I couldn't figure out a way to post them in some congruent form, but still I think a lot of this information could help some people, so read on!
Well, its been awhile since I've posted on Rhodiola. I've actually been taking it for a couple months now. First Solgar, then Nature's Plus. At times I took it alone, at times i trialed it with St. John's Wort. A week ago, I was taking St. John's Wort (perika 900 mg a day) with Rhodiola (nature's plus 500 mg a day). To be honest, I wasn't feeling all that great yet. And also, I felt really foggy, so it was extremely hard to concentrate here in college.
Just recently, I decided that since I was feeling foggy, I would stop the St. John's Wort, and go with the Rhodiola alone. I know some others posters decided to do this. Well, I did notice a slight reduction in fogginess, but nevertheless its STILL there. I now know that the Rhodiola is also contributing to this fogginess, which is interesting , because a lot of people say it increases concentration or mental capacity. Strangely, I do feel it gives me some sort of "motivation" to do things, but when I sit down to pour over my college studies I feel foggy and nothing can soak in. However I find it easy to do thoughtless tasks more smoothly, like household chores and such. But when it comes to really focusing and studying on harder material, I can't concentrate at all.
I think what is happening, is the Rhodiola is a very powerful anti-stress herb. I feel so stress free that I can't (even forcefully) try to concentrate. It just won't let me go there.
Also, I noticed that without the St. John's Wort, I started to get really depressing thoughts again. So, it seems that St. John's Wort could have more anti-depressant properties than Rhodiola.
All of these ideas seem to point to why certain people on this board are having fantastic reactions to Rhodiola, while others are not. I think the people on this board who are finding that RHodiola agress with them have a bigger anxiety component to their depression (like matchbox20 was saying). Maybe their depression is caused by their anxiety. So, this eliminates anxiety, and BAM! their depression eases. But, for the rest of us, the depression still exists.
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How can you find out what type of depression you have?? I've found a ton of information on Dr. Amen's site. I've posted this before, and I'm still really excited about it.
From looking at the site, I'm beginning to really understand that I have decreased prefrontal cortex activity with increased deep limbic system activity. I found this information on this site: http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch7.asp . Basically this means I have ADD associated with depression. It sounds like other people on this board might have this subtype also.
Dr. Amen shows that this is different than a depression marked by a increase in anterior cingulate activity. Here's a clipping:
Depression I Have:
"Decreased prefrontal cortex activity with increased deep limbic system (thalamus) activity. This subtype is often associated with moodiness, negativity, low energy, sleep and appetite problems and poor concentration. It often responds best to dopaminergic or noradrenergic interventions such as buprion, imipramine or desipramine." (he recommends herbs and supplements for treating this in other pages)
Other type of depression:
"Increased anterior cingulate (this part of the brain is heavily innervated with serotonergic nerve fibers), thalamus and basal ganglia activity. This subtype is often associated with sadness, negativity, irritability, worrying, cognitive inflexibility, worrying and getting stuck or locked into negative thought patterns. It often responds best to the serotonergic antidepressants such as fluoxetine, sertraline, paroxetine and venlafaxine. "
Interestingly enough, he tends to use St. John's Wort for patients with the 2nd type of depression. So, this is really interesting to some people on this board. If your not getting exact results you need, then you might consider what "type" of depression you have.
He recommends L-tyrosine for the prefrontal cortex problems, and even for the deep limbic problems (depression). I know someone else on this board (jeannette) has been recommending this. It could be true that if you have a add/depression condition that this could really help.
This is a TON of information, but I really wanted to post this. I guess it gives some clarity of thought to why St. John's Wort works better for some people than others. Also why Rhodiola might work better for some than others. I think we really need to start realizing that there are many different subtypes of depression and anxiety. I mean why would there be just one little neat category of depression! Life is too complicated for that! In reality there are a bunch. Knowing what "type" you have can really help you in finding a herb, supplement, or pharmacuetical that will help you. This way your not stuck trying one thing after another and failing with each one. If you know what you have, then you can first start with the ones recommended for your type, and go from there. This increases your chances of finding a solution.
So, keep on learning about your condition. Learn everything you can. Knowledge is power, and can help you overcome! Have hope everyone!
Posts: 48 | | Registered: Tue 11 Feb 2003 10:6 |
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| | "Re(1):Depression, SJW, Rhodiola, and more! RE" , Tue 29 Apr 14:37
After taking St. John's wort, and sam-e, I noticed I was even more depressed and lethargic. However, with Rhodiola (I'm on day 5 with Nature's Plus brand), I have had 3 great days. I have to take 3 capsules at once in the morning to have an effect. I guess I would be described as having an anxiety component to my depression, since I am depressed, yet hyper and don't have the fatigue that a lot of depressed people complain about.
I tried Solaray rhodiola, and after taking all 30 pills over about a week and a half, I was about to give it up, since I wasn't really feeling any good effects. After reading the posts here, I decided to go with Nature's Plus brand, and to perhaps take more than one at a time to see if that worked. I hope I'm not speaking too soon, but the past few days I have felt so much better. I'm actually having feelings of being interested in stuff. My depression has completely trashed my ability to concentrate and to find interest in anything, so this is huge to me. I just hope it continues to work.
Posts: 4 | | Registered: Thu 3 Apr 2003 5:33 |
| | "Eureka!" , Tue 29 Apr 07:20
I've always had more anxiety than depression and I think your theory might be right on. I notice a severe reduction in my depression once I'm in a non stressful enviornment. Rhodiola is the only thing I've found that can actually relieve my stress, within my everyday working enviornment, and allow me to handle the pressures of life/job/family/etc. Hence, it's an ideal antidepressive for me. But long ago, when this all started at the age of 13, the first symptoms were anxiety and then later the depression came.
Posts: 33 | | Registered: Thu 6 Sep 2001 7:42 |
| | "Re(1):Depression, SJW, Rhodiola, and more! RE" , Mon 28 Apr 22:49
I was at that website you posted a LONG time ago. I wondered then, and still do, if my brain injury as a 2 1/2 year old caused my depression. I forgot about that. Now I'm taking my chlorophyl daily, starting today. It heals nerve endings in the brain.
I'm wondering if you're having a hard time studying, based on your ADD? I have that too and was lucky enough to get through High School. I can't remember the quick fix my doc told me when I was diagnosed ADD, but it was something about needing a stimulant in order to calm me down. But all the coffee, ephedra, guarana and siberian ginseng still don't do it for me. They calm me too much. If I was in your situation (school/studying), I'd be asleep already! If you find a fix, let me know...I've been reading about that L-Tyrosine (sp??) I may give that a whirl along with the Rhodiola.
I think today is my 5th or 6th day on Rhodiola alone. I quit SJW when I started Rhodiola. For years, I've taken a half a diet pill a day (little ephedra and guarana) and Siberian Ginseng. This keeps me focused somewhat. Now that I've been on Rhodiola...yesterday and today I've done Rhodiola only. No other stimulants. Rhodiola isn't working as a stimulant for me. I can't explain it. I'm focused, not my usual scattered self. I'm not overly energized. I wouldn't say I'm alert. But, I feel good. I feel a little lazy, which I've never felt in my life! But I'm okay with it, which is new to me as well. I wonder if us ADD people have something in common...
Best wishes...Jules ;-)
Posts: 43 | | Registered: Tue 8 Apr 2003 19:7 |
| | "Re(1):Depression, SJW, Rhodiola, and more! RE" , Mon 28 Apr 10:17
I agree there are different types of depression and treatments, and everyone needs to find what works for them. I suffered from the serotonin deficiency depression, that is why 5htp worked so well for me. I'm not sure if the brain fog is from the medication or the depression, but gingko worked well for me. I want to recommend the book Depression Free Naturally by Joan Larson, in it she discusses the different types of depression/anxiety and the alternative treatments she recommends. She advises for muddled thinking and fogginess that we take the amino acid glutamine.
MJ DuPont
Posts: 525 | | Registered: Wed 20 Jun 2001 6:19 |
| | | "Re(2):Depression, SJW, Rhodiola, and more! RE" , Mon 28 Apr 23:01
I took Dr Amen's Brain System Checklist and it said that ADD inattentive type and limbic system hyperactivity were highly probable, whereas cingulate hyperactivity was not probable. That would suggest that my problems are more to do with dopamine than with serotonin. It did say that SJW can have a "cooling" effect on the limbic system, so it may be useful for more than just cingulate hyperactivity. It's often lumped together with the SSRIs, but I've read that it affects dopamine and norepinephrine as well as serotonin.
I've certainly found SJW to be very helpful over the last five months, but I still have trouble focusing and occasional problems with low energy. L-Tyrosine seems to be the natural supplement of choice for this - I don't think I'd want to take any of the stimulants commonly prescribed for ADD. He also recommends a high protein, low carbohydrate diet. My diet is very high in carbohydrates, so perhaps this is where I'm going wrong. Interestingly, the same low-carb diet would be bad for a person with serotonin-related problems because carbohydrates increase serotonin levels, so it's actually very important to figure out which type of depression you have.
It's all very interesting - perhaps we can look forward to the day when we can all get brain scans to show us exactly what the problem is and whether what we're taking for it is making it better or worse.
Dan
Posts: 167 | | Registered: Sat 14 Dec 2002 17:8 |
| | | "Re(3):Depression, SJW, Rhodiola, and more! RE" , Tue 29 Apr 06:28
Hey all,
That is very interesting. For me, I have never had anxiety or depression until about a 14 months ago when I was 31. I had a major panic attack one monday at work that freaked me out. I went to the ER thinking I was dying. The DR.(s) said it was caused by a combination of a decade of partying (drugs), Ephdra usage and stress. Well I stopped all that nonsense and a week later I had another one. I then started a 14 month quest to get myself back to "normal". I felt this knot in my stomach that was anxiety and could explode anytime. This in turn caused me to be so depressed because I thought I would never feel "normal" again. I tried SJW, Kava, etc. Finally, last November I went to a shrink and talked with him. He prescribed me Paxil CR 25mgs and I have been on it for about six months now. I then came across the study of Rhodiola and added 400mgs about a fortnight ago. I can say that my anxiety is gone and my mind is much clearer now. With the anxiety lifted it seems that my depression is melting. I am even to the point where I want to taper off Paxil very slowly and be done with it.
So all in all, I fall in the category of GAD/PA that causes depression....
Matt
Posts: 67 | | Registered: Tue 26 Mar 2002 10:12 |
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