Topic Title: Question about Kira, again...
| |  "Question about Kira, again..."
, Thu 27 Mar 00:43
I have read through a few pages all the information about Kira. I just would like to verify that I understood it right...
I'm a first-time user and I just bought "Kira, St John's Wort, Concentrated standardised extract of Hypericum perforatum L." (One a day) from Boots. It says: "Each tablet contains: Gently dried standardised LI 160 extract of St John's Wort (Hypericum perforatum L.), providing 900 mcg total hypericin."
There was another Kira, 30 One-A-Day, but I choose the above one.
At the moment I take one a day (Day 3 today). I don't think I have recognised any changes so far. Reading some of the msgs here I will continue to take one tablet a day for about 2 weeks and if I still don't feel any difference, I will take 2 a day. That way I will find my lowest dosage that is necessary.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
And: How fast will SJW work? Is it really going to take about 2 weeks ore can I expect a change sooner? (my problem is impatience as well)
And: Can I overdose? How do I know that I overdose?
Thanks,
Cornelia
Posts: 0 | | Registered: Thu 27 Mar 2003 0:30 |
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| | "Re(1):Question about Kira, again..." , Thu 27 Mar 12:48
Ironically, you should be taking up to 3 of these per day. The dosage instructions with Kira are problematic in the UK and some other parts of the world (e.g. NZ). One tablet a day just won't be enough for a lot of people.
It's almost impossible to overdose on SJW. The LD50 (lethal dose) has never been established because no obvious toxicity occurs apart from skin photosensitivity, and you need about 30 tablets to bring on the kind of full-blown photosensitivity demonstrated in animals.
Having said that, most experts agree it's still best to keep your intake to the minimum required for the effect you want. 1-3 should do that; some people need slightly more again.
Epyx
Posts: 495 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
| | | "Re(2):Question about Kira, again..." , Fri 11 Apr 15:07
I am also taking the one a day 900mg Kira tablets. I read on this discussion forum that 900mg was the most efficacious dose, thereby making ONE of these tablets good enough for each day.. like it says on the packet. Are you saying that people should be having 1 to 3 tablets each day.. potentially giving 900 to 2700mg per day???
Posts: 2 | | Registered: Fri 11 Apr 2003 3:33 |
| | | "Re(3):Question about Kira, again..." , Fri 11 Apr 20:15
This is a very common misunderstanding over units of measurement.
If you look closely, you'll notice that your One-A-Day Kira tablets are not designated "900mg" (milligrams), but rather "900mcg" (micrograms). This is a reference to the hypericin content, not the amount of SJW extract in the tablet.
Here is how the maths works for your tablet:
1800mg of dry flowering top is 6:1 ethanol-extracted to become 300mg of SJW extract. In turn, this contains 0.3% concentration of hypericin (0.3% x 300mg = 900mcg) and about 3% concentration of hyperforin (3% x 300mg = 9mg).
So in summary, this is the standard LI-160 tablet that was used in clinical studies, the same tablet on which we here base most of our calculations, and the same strength and dose of tablet that the majority of SJW manufacturers copy. And by the way, the same Kira tablet that is sold as a 3-a-day dosage in the rest of the world.
You need 3 of these each day to emulate the dose used in the majority of successful clinical trials, and that seems to be backed up anecdotally by the experiences of people in this forum.
Basically, the instructions on the Kira packet are "wrong", a point conceded even by Kira's manufacturers, Lichtwer UK. This is a limitation of how Lichtwer chooses to respond to British Medicines Law.
Hope this clears it up.
Epyx
Posts: 504 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
| | | "Re(4):Question about Kira, again..." , Sat 12 Apr 11:27
Great! thank you Epyx. Very clear now. Wish KIRA could be as clear. I will start taking 3 a day from now on - although strangely I feel a little better today having taken two this morning... getting more hopeful.
Can I please ask what brand you take? Kira is very expensive and it is going to cost me an arm and a leg if I am to use three a day to get to 900mg.
Posts: 4 | | Registered: Fri 11 Apr 2003 3:33 |
| | | "Re(5):Question about Kira, again..." , Sat 12 Apr 18:14
I'm assuming you live in the UK... I've just moved back after spending a couple of years in The Netherlands. Over there Kira is half the price it is here - based on the cost of a 20 day supply of 900 mg per day. I made sure I brought plenty of boxes back with me. The UK price is extortionate - perhaps they think that because they only recommend that people take one a day they can get away with charging more for it!
At the same time, Kira is a good quality brand and has worked extremely well for me over the last 4 1/2 months. I'd be reluctant to switch to another brand. It may be different for you if you've recently started. I think you have three options:
1. Pay the high UK price.
2. Order it in bulk over the internet. Even with the shipping charges it will work out a lot cheaper. There are a few US-based websites that will do this - iherb.com is one. I know a website in The Netherlands (in English, fortunately) that I could give you the address of if you want (I don't have it to hand right now). I haven't used them yet though so don't know what their service or shipping charges are like.
3. Switch to a different brand. Healthspan and Quest are recommended by other UK users and are quite cheap. Healthspan is available by mail order only, but I think Quest appears in a few health food shops. Another possibility is Holland and Barrett's own brand of SJW.
Hope this helps. I'm going to have to make the same decision myself in a few months' time.
Good luck,
Dan
Posts: 147 | | Registered: Sat 14 Dec 2002 17:8 |
| | | "Re(6):Question about Kira, again..." , Sat 12 Apr 19:20:
Pootle: I'm in Australia, so I'm using an Australian brand called Herron. I chose it after approaching the Italian botanical extractor who (allegedly) makes the WS5572 extract for a German pharmaceutical firm called Willmar Schwabe (this is the extract that goes into Movana and Perika).
Daniel: I've never tried Kira, although it must be said that their LI160-based product is definitely the benchmark SJW product.
The thing is though, that LI160 really only describes a process for ethanolic extraction, and Kira is not exclusive in doing that. In fact, most SJW extracts are created this way.
When I first came to this board, I started reading as much as I could about SJW and this led me to look for so-called "research-grade SJW" i.e. LI160. There are quite a few US operations selling LI160 tablets without calling them Kira; I believe Boots UK are doing the same thing.
This revelation uncovered the botanical extractor who was manufacturing these LI160 tablets: Indena. A few emails and phone calls and I discovered a handful of local brands containing the extract I wanted (Indena's "St JohnSelect", which seems to be a WS5572 extract). I'm now paying A$0.20 per tablet. Unbranded LI160 tablets can be had in the US for around US$0.10.
It's strange that LI160 and WS5572 represented patented processes, yet the botanical extractor who makes them doesn't seem to mind shipping those extracts to any old manufacturer. I can't work that out, but it's good for the consumer! 
Epyx
P.S. Just found this link to back up what I was describing:
http://www.botanicalpathways.com/issue07/Stjohnsel.html
[this message was edited by Epyx on Sat 12 Apr 21:09]
Posts: 509 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
| | | "Re(2):Question about Kira, again..." , Fri 28 Mar 01:55
Thanks for your reply.
I took 2 yesterday (morning&evening) and I feel quiet good at the moment. I started 4 days ago so I don't know - might be the sunshine or Kira. I just keep experimenting and see how it goes. As long as I can't really overdose I am not really worried anymore.
Kira should just stop confusing people...
Cornelia
Posts: 4 | | Registered: Thu 27 Mar 2003 0:30 |
| | | "Re(3):Question about Kira, again..." , Fri 28 Mar 14:11
I couldn't agree with you more -- it's not like people's depression is any different in those parts of the world. Kira says the different instructions are for legal reasons, yet other UK manufacturers seem to offer the correct dosage on their packaging.
Hang in there with SJW. These early stages are a good time to start experimenting with all the other helpful things you can do e.g. exercise, drinking water, meditation etc etc. There have been some really good posts in the last few weeks discussing these tips.
Epyx
Posts: 496 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
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