Topic Title: Contact Kira
| |  "Contact Kira"
, Wed 17 Jul 13:46
As anyone taking Kira in the UK is aware, they do not give the dosage of extract on their packets, only the amount of hypericin contained in MICROgrams (900 in their one a days). I would really like to know the dosage of each in MILLIgrams, as I'm just assuming they are about 300mg, so I'm taking three times their recommended dose.
In order to dispel confusion once and for all, I tried the Lichtwer Pharma website, from which you can send any queries. Unfortunately I kept timing out before it would send, so I emailed them instead. They have not replied, but I thought I would mention it to anyone here who may be confused about Kira and perhaps they could have a go at contacting Lichtwer Pharma from their site with the same question - maybe one of us will get a reply.
Posts: 26 | | Registered: Fri 3 May 2002 3:4 |
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| |  "Re(1):Contact Kira"
, Wed 17 Jul 22:46:
Juju, I tried contacting Lichtwer in both the US and the UK a few months ago, to query them about the inconsistent dosages between these two countries. Like you, I got no response.
I hope someone else has more luck. The email addresses are:
Lichtwer UK: [email protected]
Lichtwer US: [email protected] (the wrong address is shown on their website)
Epyx
[this message was edited by Epyx on Wed 17 Jul 23:13]
Posts: 288 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
| | | "Re(2):Contact Kira" , Fri 19 Jul 18:05
Well well Juju! I wrote to Lichtwer UK again and got a reply. Here's the guts of what they wrote:
I am sorry to hear you have been confused by the recommended dosage of our product.
The reasons for the different dosages in different countries is all due to licensing laws basically.
In Germany St Johns Wort is a licensed medicine and is prescribed by doctors and sold over the counter.
The prescribed dosage is three 300mg tablets daily (standardised to contain 900mcg of hypericin). The over the counter dose is three 135mg tablets daily (standardised to contain 300mcg of hypericin).
When Lichtwer Pharma first introduced Kira St Johns Wort in this country in 1995 it was with the over the counter formulation ie the lower dose. This is still the dosage we recommend although we have now introduced the 300mg tablet (900mcg of hypericin)as a one a day tablet. This is because the UK prefer their herbal medicines as a one a day tablet whilst Germans are quite prepared to spread the dosage. As St John's Wort is an unlicensed herbal medicine in this country we only recommend the lower dosage although many people take the higher dose on the recommendation of their doctor.
In the USA there are different licensing laws and Lichtwer Pharma were able to launch Kira at the higher recommended dose.
So, basically the 900mcg hypericin tablet is the same in Germany, UK and the US. It is just the recommended dosages that vary. In Germany this tablet is called Jarsin 300.
So now we have it in black and white: "It is just the recommended dosages that vary". I'm still not entirely satisifed about their rationale for promoting the low dosage in the UK as compared to the US ... if SJW is unlicensed in the UK, why would there be any restriction? I'll try putting that back to Lichtwer in a followup email.
Epyx
Posts: 290 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
| | |  "Re(3):Contact Kira"
, Sat 20 Jul 08:28
Well done Epyx! I feel more reassured now - I was slightly uncomfortable at being such a 'rebel'!
It does seem strange though that Kira are reluctant to recommend the higher dosage in the UK, when other manufacturers, like Quest for example, have no qualms at all. Looking at it commercially, you would have thought that Kira would be keen for people to consume more, although they are so expensive they could be priced out of the market.
Anyway, thanks for your perseverence!
juju
Posts: 28 | | Registered: Fri 3 May 2002 3:4 |
| | | "Re(4):Contact Kira" , Mon 22 Jul 22:08
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Hopefully they'll reply to my second message and explain it.
At least Kira UK users don't have to experience "cognitive dissonance" on top of depression anymore 
Epyx
Posts: 291 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
| | | "Re(2):Contact Kira" , Thu 18 Jul 09:21
Hi Epyx,
I decided to try once more on the Lichtwer Pharms website, but this time I was directed to the Lichtwer UK site. (I had previously only visited their US site).
On their 'pharmacist' page, it quotes a recent study which suggests that taking 900mcgs of hypericin a day has similar results to 100mg of imipramine.
I am still confused - according to Lichtwer then, only 900mcgs will do the trick. I thought the optimum dosage was 900 milligrams of extract, giving 2700mcgs of hypericin.
At the moment I'm taking 3 times their recommendation (at some considerable expense) with no ill effect, but I do wonder why there is this disparity.
juju
Posts: 27 | | Registered: Fri 3 May 2002 3:4 |
| | | "Re(3):Contact Kira" , Thu 18 Jul 18:05
I've always been confused about this issue. Prior to 1993, most SJW studies were using 900mcg hypericin/day, but most of the later studies used 2700mcg/day. I think this is where the discrepency comes from.
If you feel like ringing Lichtwer UK, try (01803) 528 668 (Kira Information Line) or (01628) 487780 (main switch).
Regarding the study that the Lichtwer site quotes. The study they are referring to is the Philipp study:
http://bmj.com/cgi/content/short/319/7224/1534
This was published in the BMJ in Dec 1999, so it just goes to show that the Lichtwer UK site hasn't been updated since then.
I do believe the good doctor is wrong when he claims that this study provided "900mcg hypericin daily". The extract involved was STEI 300 (Steiner), which is a German prescription SJW called Aristo 350 (350mg extract). According to Steiner's own product sheet, STEI 300 is a 60% ethanolic extract of 5-7:1 concentration, which means it is a standard 0.3% hypericin formulation. This is confirmed in the full text of the Philipp study, which states "0.2-0.3% hypericin".
So if you do the maths, each patient got between 2100 and 3150 mcg of hypericin daily. That's a lot more than the "900mcg" claimed on the Lichtwer site!
Epyx
Posts: 288 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
| | | "Re(4):Contact Kira" , Fri 19 Jul 09:59
Is the once-a-day a new formulation? Maybe it is a time-released or enteric coated version and since the actives are protected, you need less hypericins to get the effect?
I read an article quoting the results of 23? SJW clinical trials in Europe before. Many of them used a dose of 1mg hypericin/day, much less than the recommended dose of 2.7mg/day but they still found a positive effect.
Posts: 22 | | Registered: Sat 4 May 2002 13:40 |
| | | "Re(5):Contact Kira" , Fri 19 Jul 17:35
Klo, One-A-Day is not a new formulation. It's basically the standard LI160 formulation of Kira that is used throughout the world. It's not enteric-coated or anything fancy.
If you look at those 23 trials, you should notice that most of the 2.7mg trials take place after 1993/4. You are correct in noting that people still observed a positive effect. But for the individual, this means we have to consider a dosage range based on those two values (1.0-2.7), not just blindly accept what the manufacturer dictates on the box.
As we have agreed here before, the best dose for an individual is the lowest dose that creates results.
Epyx
Posts: 289 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
| | | "Re(6):Contact Kira" , Fri 19 Jul 20:33
"As we have agreed here before, the best dose for an individual is the lowest dose that creates results."
I agree. I read Kira's reply and the over the counter dose works well for me, the prescribed dose is actually too strong.
Posts: 23 | | Registered: Sat 4 May 2002 13:40 |
| | | "Re(7):Contact Kira" , Mon 22 Jul 22:10
I've been meaning to create a small FAQ for some of these answers. Thanks for reminding me of the dosage range issue.
Epyx
Posts: 292 | | Registered: Mon 3 Dec 2001 22:11 |
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