Topic Title: 5htp Dangers (from a doctor)
| |  "5htp Dangers (from a doctor)"
, Sat 9 Aug 08:52
In both cases the end product neurotransmitter does not get
across the blood brain barrier very well, but all of the
precursor molecules above are transported by the brain's large
neutral amino acid pump, and they get into the brain fine. Thus,
if you are a Parkinson's patient who wants to raise dopamine
levels, you must take L-DOPA, not dopamine. Similarly, it would
do you no good to take serotonin-- you must take tryptophan or
5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP).
Now for the complications. (Aren't there always complications
in life?) The final reaction to the neurotransmitter in both the
case of dopamine and serotonin, is decarboxylation, and the same
enzyme (the aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase) is involved in
both conversions. This decarboxylase enzyme is present in the
liver, and it acts in the case of L-DOPA to convert the compound
to dopamine before it can make it into the brain (and if this
happens, the L-DOPA is wasted). The decarboxylase enzyme uses B6
as a cofactor for this reaction, and for this reason a
Parkinson's disease patient taking L-DOPA cannot take more than
the RDA of B6, because doing so would act to neutralize
oral L-DOPA too quickly. These days, almost all Parkinson's
patients on L-DOPA take the drug in a combination with an
artificial decarboxylase inhibitor, called Carbidopa (the
combination is called Sinemet). But even with Carbidopa,
Parkinson's patients are advised not to exceed a daily dose of B6
of 25 mg, since more will overwhelm the Carbidopa effect, and
cause pharmacologic L-DOPA to be destroyed in the liver before it
can get into the brain.
Now, Carbidopa, because it acts on the same metabolizing
enzyme in the liver, performs exactly the same preservative
service for 5-HTP as for L-DOPA. For this reason, neurologists
have experimented with giving Carbidopa to people who needed to
take 5-HTP to raise brain serotonin (this in the days before
selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor antidepressants like
Prozac were available). The problem today with 5-HTP-selling
companies bypassing doctors and going to laymen, is that a lot of
health enthusiasts with problems who are enthusiastically taking
5-HTP are NOT taking Carbidopa, but they ARE taking a lot of B6
in one form or another. Yet without Carbidopa, more than a few
milligrams of extra B6 per day would be expected to insure that
most dietary 5-HTP gets turned into serotonin before it can get
into the brain.
Alas, one company I know packages their 5-HTP in 50 mg
capsules with 10 mg of B6. They do this ostensibly so that 5-HTP
can be converted to serotonin in the brain. Duh. This insures
that any 5-HTP will get converted to serotonin in the liver
instead, and thus never make it to the brain. Vitamin B6 is the
*LAST* thing you want in an 5-HTP product.
At the very best, people who take B-vitamins with 5-HTP, or
who take 5-HTP products with B6, waste their money. All this
would be merely humorous (caveat emptor) were it not for some
other facts. At worst, ignorant people fooling with 5-HTP
actually risk their health, since serotonin in the peripheral
blood is not benign. Serotonin causes not only harmless flushing
and diarrhea, but people with serotonin secreting tumors (hindgut
carcinoids) also have problems with fibrosis of the endocardium
and valves in their right hearts, which can cause heart failure.
This fibrosis is caused by the serotonin. This effect can also
be seen with dietary intake of only modest amounts of serotonin,
and there has actually been described in the medical literature a
tribe of South Sea islanders with right heart fibrosis as a
result of eating green banana mash (matuki), which poisons them
with its serotonin content. No, I'm not making this up. The
hydroxylation of tryptophan is a rate-limiting step in the
peripheral production of serotonin, and one bypasses it at one's
peril.
How much does it take? Several hundred milligrams of 5-HTP
taken per day, if converted to serotonin, would result in a
urinary excretion of the serotonin metabolite 5-hydroxyindoleac-
etic acid (5-HIAA) of several hundred milligrams also-- an amount
well within the urinary excretion range of the average person
with a serotonin producing carcinoid. Such a dose of 5-HTP
certainly would result in a serotonin blood load comparable to
that of green-banana-diet eating people who have
serotonin-induced heart valve disease. Normally, people do not
excrete breakdown products of more than 10 mg of serotonin
metabolites per day. If you take one capsule per day of 50 mg
5-HTP with 10 mg B6, however, you would be expected to go to at
least 50 mg per day of 5-HIAA in the urine. Less metabolism in
the liver (less B6) would result in less 5-HIAA in the urine. If
you are going to take 5-HTP, therefore, you probably need 5-HIAA
urine monitoring, to figure out just how big a dose of systemic
serotonin you're actually getting (and incidentally, how much
5-HTP you're wasting). See a doctor!
For all the reasons outlined above, I am presenting those
vitamin companies who sell 5-HTP with B6, or who sell it alone
but don't warn their customers about 5-HIAA monitoring or B6
intake, a special award: the Green Banana Award. This honor is
for those supplement-sellers who monkey around with people's
health before consulting with some really good nutrition and
medical specialists to make sure they don't f*&% up and hurt
somebody. Hopefully, companies which receive the Green Banana
Award will contemplate its message, and will thereby change their
behavior in order to avoid some of the less-coveted awards which
otherwise await them in the future: the Civil Damage Award, for
instance, or even the All-Expense-Paid Guest of the Federal
Government Award.
Steven B. Harris, M.D.
Posts: 1 | | Registered: Sat 9 Aug 2003 6:11 |
| |
| | "Re(1):5htp Dangers (from a doctor)" , Sat 28 Feb 22:51
Do the negative effects of serotonin overload from 5 htp also occur from the use of TMG? Does it poison the blood like the green bananas?
Posts: 0 | | Registered: Sat 28 Feb 2004 22:46 |
| | "5htp Dangers with vitamin B6?" , Tue 10 Feb 21:40
Accept No Imitations: A Word of Caution About 5-Hydroxytryptophan or 5-HTP Taken from The Life Extension Foundation Newsletter
The reasons for the potential risks of 5-HT were brought to our attention by Steven B Harris, M.D. He explained that: 5-Hydroxytryptophan (5-HT) is one step closer to serotonin than tryptophan. The Sequence is as follows.
Tryptophan > 5-Hydroxytryptophan > Serotonin
Based on the above metabolic sequence it would appear desirable to use 5-HT instead of tryptophan since 5-HT more readily converts to serotonin. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter that is often deficient in the brains of depressed people. Boosting serotonin can alleviate depression in some people and reduce carbohydrate cravings in others, thus inducing weight loss. Here's why 5-HT will not work for most Americans, and could be lethal to some people: The blood-brain barrier does not allow significant absorption of serotonin from the blood. The brain does have a large neutral amino acid pump that freely allows tryptophan and 5-HT into the bran for conversion into serotonin. The process by which 5-H is converted into serotonin is called decarboxylation. If decarboxylation occurs before 5-HT is absorbed by the brain, than blood levels of serotonin will elevate significantly, but very little serotonin will enter the brain.
When Europeans take 5-HT, they are often prescribed the dopa decarboxylase inhibitor carbidopa that prevents 5-HT from being converted into serotonin until it reaches the brain. Americans do not take carbidopa with 5-HT and the result is possible serotonin overload in the blood, with virtually no serotonin reaching the brain.
We will describe later the dangers of overloading the blood with serotonin.
Americans taking 5-HT are more vulnerable to blood serotonin overload because, unlike most Europeans who are vitamin deficient, Americans who use 5-HT usually take large doses of vitamin B6 as well. Vitamin B6 rapidly converts 5-HT into serotonin before it can reach the brain. Even when combined with carbidopa, high levels of vitamin B6 will break through the carbidopa barrier and insure that 5-HT converts into serotonin in the blood before the it can reach the brain The multiple health benefits of vitamin B6 are too important, we believe, to recommend that people avoid taking vitamin B6 just to enable them to try using 5-HT to boost brain serotonin levels. This may be difficult anyway without also taking carbidopa, which is only available in the US. as a prescription drug.
At the very best, those who take vitamin B6 with 5-HT are probably wasting their money. Unfortunately, high serotonin in the blood in not benign. Anyone suffering from heart disease should avoid 5-HT because the elevation in blood serotonin could cause coronary artery spasm an/or abnormal platelet aggregation, which are risk factors for sudden death heart attack. Here is the real frightening aspect of serotonin overload, as described by Dr. Harris: "Serotonin causes not only harmless flushing and diarrhea, but people with serotonin secreting tumors (hindgut carcinoids) also have problems with fibrosis of the endocardium and valves of their right hearts with can cause heart failure.
The effect can also be seen with dietary intake of only modest amounts of serotonin, and there has actually been described in the medical literature, a tribe of South Sea islanders with right heart fibrosis as a result of eating green banana mush, which poisons them with its serotonin content" Dr. Harris goes on to state that people who ingest several hundred milligrams a day of 5-HT with B6 and without a decarboxylase inhibitor would expect to see urinary excretion of a serotonin metabolite in the same range as a person with a serotonin secreting tumor. Based upon Dr. Harris' report the Foundation had its analysts conduct an extensive review of the medical literature and have come to the following preliminary conclusions.
1) For 5-HT to boost serotonin levels in the brain it is necessary to:
a)Take 50 mg of carbidopa before each 5-HT dose. Carbidopa is a prescription drug.
b)Limit vitamin B6 supplementation to a small dose taken at least six hours before or after 5-HT carbidopa dosing.
c) Have a urinary test to measure a metabolite of serotonin called 5-hydroxy indoleacetic acid (5-HIAA) on a regular basis. As long as 5-HIAA levels are normal, than 5-HT intake would be safe.
2) Those with existing cardiovascular disease, including atrial fibrillation, coronary artery disease, congestive heart failure, cardiomyopathy, valvular disease or pulmonary hypertension may want to avoid 5-HT completely. One Foundation analyst felt that 81 mg a day of aspirin and 500 mg a day of magnesium would reduce the risk of 5-HT inducing a heart attack.
3)The effects of 5-HT by itself elevating blood serotonin levels are extremely individualistic. Some people may not experience any blood serotonin increase, while others could suffer from a lethal serotonin peripheral overload.
4) Despite the potential dangers of 5-HT, most FDA-approved drugs to treat depression and obesity appear to be more toxic.
5) At the time of this printing, we have not been able to verify whether 5-HT induced serotonin overload would cause fibrosis of the aortic valve and destruction of the heart muscle. Based on the potential health risks of ingesting 5-HIT, Bio Recovery has decided not to offer it tat this time. we encourage anyone seeking to use 5-HT to follow strictly the above protocol for safe 5-HT supplementation. We'll post further evidence regarding 5-HTP as soon as it becomes available.
This warning applies only to 5-hydroxy tryptophan (5-HT), not tryptophan itself. Published studies show that tryptophan does not readily convert into serotonin in the blood, but that 5-HT does, since 5-HT can convert directly into serotonin while tryptophan has to go through one additional metabolic step which protects against blood serotonin overload.
Posts: 4 | | Registered: Sat 16 Aug 2003 12:1 |
| | "Re(1):5htp Dangers (from a doctor)" , Fri 24 Oct 10:59
Well doc, I've got a few comments. First off, the reason most people are here and trying alternative therapies like 5-htp is because they have been totally let down by the medical industry. Consult a doctor about 5-htp and they have never heard of it nine times out of ten. Ever think about that? The doctor sends you home with samples of Paxil or Zoloft or whatever company is either giving him a kick back or a free ash tray. The patient goes home and is usually confused because the doctor didn't take enough time to actually explore the problem. In many instances, the doctor doesn't even warn the patient that they may never get another godamm erection again after a week on their wonder pill. Hey great idea, give the person with anxiety something worse to be freaked out about!
So before you start to scare everyone who might be feeling a bit better on something that has not to date killed anyone, why don't you ponder why people in your industry let us down evey day. Shame on you, do something positive for christ sake.
Posts: 0 | | Registered: Thu 23 Oct 2003 19:13 |
| | "Re(1):5htp Dangers (from a doctor)" , Tue 12 Aug 22:42
mmm, what? =) Lamens terms here......From what I just read all I got was I shouldnt take 5htp that has B6 already in it? can you simplify your previous post a little bit for us not so medically inclined people please?
Posts: 7 | | Registered: Mon 28 Jul 2003 22:42 |
| | | "Re(2):5htp Dangers (from a doctor)" , Sat 26 Feb 13:55
All the concerns raised by this doctor speaking out against 5-HTP in 2001 (http://yarchive.net/med/5-htp.html), which, by the way, were based largely on conjecture, have been addressed and refuted by recent literature as of 2005, as communicated here:
http://www.life-enhancement.com/article_template.asp?ID=46
It says it is safe and actually beneficial to take B6 with 5-HTP. In fact, doing so increased serotonin production in the brain by 60%, whereas the doctor said serotonin converted by B6 in the bloodstream wouldn't even get into the brain.
Posts: 0 | | Registered: Sat 26 Feb 2005 13:49 |
|
|
Home
email/admin 
SJW home 
forum index
