The Sam-e thread

[Vulpix Sapiens]

Sam-e vs nausea

Hi,

I started Sam-e a few days ago. Very good against depression but I am experiencing a nausea feeling.

Does anyone know how to help this ?

VS

[Quest]

I took Sam e for 2 months. In the initial stages it did indeed cause a nausea.
I bought Ginger capsules and they worked BRILLIANTLY. One 500 mg capsule will last about 4-5 hours for me.
A thing about Sam e...in the beginning it was absolutely wonderful, and I had read that it will build up in your system so one might not need as much as days go on. Take notice of this. If you begin to feel jittery, motion sick, or slightly hyper..then think about cutting your dose a bit. :smile:

[Vulpix Sapiens]

Quest,

Thanks a lot for this information about Ginger. Just now I am taking an antiemetic but I am not very happy with this solution. Does Ginger work to reduce dopamine ?

Yes I noticed that Sam-e is building up gradually. I stopped taking it due to nausea but I am still feeling the full effect of it. BTW may I ask you why you stopped Sam-e ? Did you feel too much pressure or anxiety ?

VS

[Quest]

The ginger wont do anything to your dopamine level as far as I know. Its really quite an easy solution to nausea without affecting much anything else, as far as I have read. It can be a very minor blood thinner, and it helps increase circulation which is why in articles past people put in on par with Ginkgo as a slight mood elevator. This is due to circulation, not any increases in neurotransmitters. Also, the Same e, after a few weeks did bring on motion sickness for me..which was really odd, but quite troublesome. Thereafter, I read that since Sam e can raise Dopamine, it can indeed be an increase in dopamine that can cause sudden motion sickness in people. Strange indeed. The ginger got rid of that though as well.
The reason that I stopped? Well, I must say that it was the absolute best antidepressant that worked very quickly for me, even reducing my anxiety to almost nil. Yet after a few weeks, the strange jitters started, and dizzies which proceeded to worsen..finally to a point where it caused the most horrific anxiety attack that I had ever known. To be fair, I tried the Sam e again after I took a break and the jitters had stopped. I tried it again because it certainly was that good at relieving my moods and I didnt want to put the blame on the Sam e...even though it seemed the obvious cause of the panic. Within a week, the jitters returned along with palpitations..of which Id never even had before. I cut my dose to a mere 50mg and still it was making me feel most anxious, finally to a point where I felt hyper and Id never experienced that before. I must say that it did frighten me. It was that extreme. Thats why I came off of it. It amazes me how some people can take many milligrams and be fine, and people like me can barely take a full dose and be completely wired. I assume that since I do have anxiety, it was just magnified. But I also believe that those that are truly deeply depressed without anxiety might really benefit from Sam e. I would not say that it is a bad alternative, just one that has to be adjusted carefully. Watch for the warning signs of jitteriness. and unlike taking more as you might with St Johns Wort, take LESS if this happens. All the best to you.

[Vulpix Sapiens]

Quest,
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
I am not sure to understand « jitters ». Do you mean a physical feeling of tremor and unrest in your nerves ? Or a mental feeling of fear and anxiety ? I am on the tired side of depression, not on the anxious side so according to your analysis Sam-e may benefit to me. I have been taking it for two weeks, 200 mg every 3 days. I had an anxious feeling one evening, it was very unpleasant, but it disappeared after one hour and did not come again. Anyway I promise you that I will care about this issue !<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Where can you find 50 mg tablets of Sam-e? I know only 200 mg and 400 mg tablets. And what is your opinion about the nausea ? Is it a false signal created by the brain or does it reflect an actual irritation in the digestive system ? Could it disappear (or worsen) when taking Sam-e together with a meal, rather than on an empty stomach ? <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Thanks again for your help !<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Vulpix Sapiens <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

[Quest]

Quest,
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
I am not sure to understand « jitters ». Do you mean a physical feeling of tremor and unrest in your nerves ? Or a mental feeling of fear and anxiety ? I am on the tired side of depression, not on the anxious side so according to your analysis Sam-e may benefit to me. I have been taking it for two weeks, 200 mg every 3 days. I had an anxious feeling one evening, it was very unpleasant, but it disappeared after one hour and did not come again. Anyway I promise you that I will care about this issue !<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Where can you find 50 mg tablets of Sam-e? I know only 200 mg and 400 mg tablets. And what is your opinion about the nausea ? Is it a false signal created by the brain or does it reflect an actual irritation in the digestive system ? Could it disappear (or worsen) when taking Sam-e together with a meal, rather than on an empty stomach ? <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Thanks again for your help !<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Vulpix Sapiens <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>


The brand of tablet that I still have in my cabinet is Nature Made blister packed Sam e. The box states 200mg, however, the serving size says 2 tablets equals 200 mg meaning each tablet is 100mg. When I cut my dose to 50mg I split a tablet in half and wrapped the unused bit in plastic wrap. I read that it would not cause a breakdown in its effectiveness (which it didnt) (Ray Sahaliens website I believe is where the info is)
Being how these different alternatives break down in various ways I assume that the Sam e is irritating the stomach lining as that is where there is now (due to Sam e) a greater concentration of serotonin. The stomach is indeed where there are the most serotonin receptors. An overabundance of more serotonin there can cause nausea, which is also why many of the prescription depressive meds cause extreme nausea.
Some people have what one might call an "iron gut" and not be as bothered.
As for jitters, I will explain...
Initially, after 4 or 5 days, maybe an hour after my dose I noticed that I felt slightly "buzzy" as if Id had a bit too much coffee. The feeling passed after an hour or so, so it didnt really worry me.
In continuing my daily dose, the feeling became more intense, not lasting all day...but in the times it did come, I felt a bit on edge, and then like Id had a rush, somewhat after you might feel after a fright. (Adrenaline I assume)
So I increased my dose believing that quite possibly I needed more...but that was a mistake as I began to experience motion sickness while driving (which Id never had before) and I felt much more shaky, physically and then more hyper mentally...like my mind was racing. (Not pleasant)
I stopped the Sam e for a week and had some residual night shakes where I would wake up with heart palpitations (Never had had those either)
My anxiety was never one where I shook or had any extreme bodily reaction, it had just been more of a worrisome state where I was more phobic then shaky. So this was all new to me.
Anyway, I decided to try the Sam e again, and of course the nausea was there, but under control with ginger, and then one evening out of the blue I felt as though everything was rocking, my heart started beating hard, my mind was racing, I felt nauseous and faint. It scared me so terribly that I told my husband I should go to the emergency room. (Never did that before either) It was relentless. However, my husband told me that it seemed that I was in a panic and convinced me to lie down and take of all things a motion sickness tablet (Some people take Dramamine for not only motion sickness, but panic) Within 20 minutes it all stopped.
This experience was so frightening that I cant even type the right words to convey.
It happened once more, out of the blue..at my sons school orientation.
Since then, no more Sam e for me.
And since then the jitters and the panics and motion sickness have all stopped. My anxiety is back to its old but more tolerable level.
Sorry to ramble on here, and I dont want to scare anyone, but it IS important that one realizes what can happen, maybe it wont, but it can.
Still, I highly recommend Sam e for those who can tolerate it. But in my case, it raised my anxiety state to uncontrolled levels. Thats why I say to be careful and watch for warning signs of intolerability. But if you can take it, it is truly wonderous for depression.
PS..Taking it with or without food did not matter for me. If my stomach was empty I felt too nauseous to eat..if I had already eaten, then the pill made me feel nauseous anyway. Chewing a bit of peppermint gum helped and then of course the ginger really stopped the nausea all together.
All the best to you.

[Vulpix Sapiens]

Quest,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
After some searches on the world wide web and as far as can understand, SAM-e works very much like an “all-purpose receptor booster” thus it brings much energy in the brain but also causes some unwanted side-effects like nausea (5HT-3 and D2 receptors) and anxiety (5HT-2 receptors). On the opposite a product like Mirtazapine (Remeron ®) (which I have not tried) could be safe of the above mentioned side-effects (since it antagonizes 5HT-2 and 5HT-3) but less “brilliant” than SAM-e on the antedepressive effect. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Yours. Vulpix<o:p></o:p>

[Quest]

We are all like guinea pigs in this of course.
I have indeed heard of Remeron. It seems like most of my time is spent searching for an answer or trying some alternative in hopes that I wont need a prescription.
So far, I still am taking 5HTP, but not daily. It boosts my mood and I have had no terrible side effects other then nausea only in the beginning. As for the anxiety, it tames that too...but not totally eliminating it. Still, it is much better than nothing. It helps me be what I would consider more normal feeling in stabilizing my mood.
If I had a particularly bad period of depression I would probably take 50mg of Sam e just to get me out of that hole so to speak...but Sam e is not something I can take regularly. I hope that in your case you fare much better than I did. :smile:

[Vulpix Sapiens]

forgot to ask

Quest,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
It seems that you are very sensitive to the positive effects of the products, but this comes together with being also very sensitive to their wrong side effects. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I have an additional question for you, which I forgot to ask. When you were taking SAM-e, did you notice some tension in your nerves? I noticed some tension in my hand, making my handwriting a little bit clumsy, I don’t know if it is important or not. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Yours. VS<o:p></o:p>

[Quest]

forgot to ask

Quest,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
It seems that you are very sensitive to the positive effects of the products, but this comes together with being also very sensitive to their wrong side effects. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I have an additional question for you, which I forgot to ask. When you were taking SAM-e, did you notice some tension in your nerves? I noticed some tension in my hand, making my handwriting a little bit clumsy, I don’t know if it is important or not. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Yours. VS<o:p></o:p>


Hello, hope you are well..
Because in the end, the Sam e was making me extremely what I would consider manic..my handwriting suffered..but that could be because I was EXTREMELY shaky physically at that point. I have kept a journal for all my alternative experiences and looking back not only do I recall it being difficult to write (it was if I had no patience and I was rushing to write because my hands seemed to fumble..not so much maybe that I couldnt) but my writing was extremely squiggly and a mess. In my case my anxiety peaking probably caused this reaction..I could compare it to those scary movies when someone is desperately trying to escape a killer and their hands cant manage to get a car key into an ignition in time to escape. Coordination problems along with fear in my case. (Weird example..but thats how it felt) I would guess that you are lucky not to have had anxiety issues making it more difficult to continue. I truly hope that the Sam e serves you well.

[netsync]

from the responses here, it seems that SAM-e is beneficial, but it is best to take it only for a short period of time since it seems to be pretty strong and in smaller doses.

[Quest]

from the responses here, it seems that SAM-e is beneficial, but it is best to take it only for a short period of time since it seems to be pretty strong and in smaller doses.

Thats what you see here, but there are many people that take Sam e in MUCH higher doses. Personally, anything over 50mg would have had me in the ER after a long period. However, many people take Sam e for arthritis..and the doses are well higher. Im very sensitive to the norepinephrine increase which is going to shoot up adrenaline...and if you suffer from anxiety or panics..thats a BIG problem. However, thats not to say that it would not be beneficial to some. Especially those with mild to moderate depression alone. And in the initial week..it did help me tremendously..but unfortunately while increasing my serotonin, it also increased my norepinephrine. It DOES build up in the system...so say after awhile you just need to remember that one might not need a full dose to sustain the anti depressive effects.:smile:

[netsync]

very interesting Quest, thanks. i'm considering taking SAM-e myself and have bought a bottle containing tablets of 100 mg each. to all who have taken it, what time of day did you find best to take it? morning? lunchtime? dinner? before bed? your input is greatly appreciated =)

[Quest]

very interesting Quest, thanks. i'm considering taking SAM-e myself and have bought a bottle containing tablets of 100 mg each. to all who have taken it, what time of day did you find best to take it? morning? lunchtime? dinner? before bed? your input is greatly appreciated =)


I would never recommend it before bed. And the literature I have says morning and afternoon... and if you try 3 doses early evening. However, start this slow..try one a day to see how you react in the mornings for a number of days (because remember it builds up) Then if you feel that you need an afternoon boost, take another then (also waiting a number of days)
This way you can tell how much is too little...or too much. Try not to full dose. Plus it would most likely be hell on your stomach full force right away.

Ah and PS...You say that you have bought a bottle of tablets. Sam e is actually best effective in blister packs. It degrades VERY rapidly otherwise as I have read a number of articles on this.

[netsync]

Thanks for the advise on the packaging Quest. I wound up returning the bottle and got a 20 pack of Jarrow's SAM-e, each pill being 200 mg. I'm starting with one a day upon waking up on a empty stomach alongside one 500 mg pill of Ginger to ease the nausea. Like Vulpix Sapiens, I too am on the "tired side" of depression. Today is day one on SAM-e so hopefully this will "jump start" the engine so to say.

[Vulpix Sapiens]

Netsync,

Yo should also take B6 B9 B12 vitamins to protect your heart from homocystein in the long term.

And don't fail to read this interesting thread :
http://forum.doctissimo.fr/sante/
dhea-pilules/SAMe-sujet-144937-2.htm

Vulpix

[roy100]

:rolleyes: Has anyone use this brand?
I bought 8 bottles, ( 8 months supply ) , and even thought it has expired 1 year ago, it was cheap.
I read in the book Stop depression now, that it stays in good condition up to 5 years.
Anyhow why did Pharmaton discontinue producing it , it a good brand name. ????????
Thanks roy100

[JustAguy]

When I cut my dose to 50mg I split a tablet in half and wrapped the unused bit in plastic wrap. I read that it would not cause a breakdown in its effectiveness (which it didnt) (Ray Sahaliens website I believe is where the info is)


Which is why this whole website can be a dangerous place of misinformation and literally the blind leading the blind. Sam-e has an enteric coating to allow it to pass through the stomach and be absorbed. When you break it in half it is the same as taking a sugar pill. Nothing. Placebo.

[JustAguy]

:rolleyes: Has anyone use this brand?
I bought 8 bottles, ( 8 months supply ) , and even thought it has expired 1 year ago, it was cheap.
I read in the book Stop depression now, that it stays in good condition up to 5 years.
Anyhow why did Pharmaton discontinue producing it , it a good brand name. ????????
Thanks roy100

Sam-e neds to be packaged in singular, air tight packaging (blister packs). the fatc that yours is a year old makes the whole lot worthless. Sorry to be the bearer of that news.

[Quest]

Which is why this whole website can be a dangerous place of misinformation and literally the blind leading the blind. Sam-e has an enteric coating to allow it to pass through the stomach and be absorbed. When you break it in half it is the same as taking a sugar pill. Nothing. Placebo.


Sorry to disagree..but I do.
Not a placebo in MY case. IT still is absorbed whether in the stomach or intestine. But I understand your point, everyone has an opinion. My opinion is based on reading many studies, working in the pharmacy industry for 7 years and working to finish a degree in naturopathy. And of course I did take Sam e to investigate and make my own opinion. Im not saying that you are wrong..Im saying that everyone is and/or believes differently at times.

[Bach]

In my experience there are two major kinds of depression. One is treated better with a boost in serotonin (SJW, SSRI's) and the other requires a boost in dopamine (SAMe, SDRI's).

For years I noticed a dramatic cognitive dip with my depression. When I took SJW or 5-HTP I got really stupid and slow. Now that I've discovered SAMe it's like rocket fule for my brain! Not only has the depression gone away, but I have cognition back and as a result I'm much calmer. It may seem paradoxical that speeding things up makes you calmer, but think of it as a kin to having a ADHD, where drugs like Adderall will calm you down even though its an amphetamine.

I also suffered from panic attacks that were related to all this. The cause of panic is an overative amygdala and what controls the amygdala is the prefrontal cortex, particularly the left prefrontal cortex. It acts as a gatekeeper of sorts to stop any "misfires" (when the amygdala is sending fear to the conscious mind when it's not really necessary). When the prefrontal cortex is underpowered it can't do that job and the fear gets through. What SAMe is doing for me is speeding up my prefrontal cortex and allowing it to regulate my overactive amygdala. Dopamine plays a huge role in higher cognition, which is one of the main functions of the prefrontal cortex.

I think what I'm getting at is that those of you who feel extremely anxious on SAMe might be better treated with a serotonin boosting agent, rather than a dopamine booster. And contrary to popular belief, serotonin is not the end all-be all in the fight against depression. Many people like myself have depression because of slow brain activity and serotonin enhancing agents will more than likely just exacerbate the situation.

Again, it sounds silly that an amino acid like SAMe, which increases dopamine and thus speeds up the brain, can actually help control panic disorder, but the brain works in mysterious ways.

[Vulpix Sapiens]

Hi Quest, Hi All,

Hi Bach,

I am not surprised that you feel calmer when SAM-e improves your cognition. It is more relaxing to be smart, than to be stupid and knowing it. BTW, how long have you been under SAM-e, what is your dosage and did you have any side effects ?

Also, before reading your post I was believing that SAM-e is all-purpose i.e. enhancing both serotonine and dopamine. How do you find that SAM-e enhances only dopamine ?

If you have free time please check this thread :

http://forum.doctissimo.fr/sante/dhea-pilules/same-sujet_144937_4.htm

It is in French but probably you can understand it with the help of Google translator and of your improved capacities :smile:

Yours. Vulpix Sapiens

[Breakthrough]

Bach , very interesting post.

I had thought that SJW boosted Dopamine levels.( I knew that 5htp improved seratonin levels).

Just shows how wrong you can be.

SJW worked beautifully for me and I'am free of depression , just taking a very low maintenance dose to keep the anxiety away while I continue to improve my diet and general health in the hope one day of not needing to take anything.

I can concur about the comment regarding SJW's effecting mental sharpness.It's the one drawback I have found.

I have taken a tiny amount of Rhodea Rosa for the first time today with excellent results.It gives the same protection from anxiety that SJW gives me , while at the same time giving me my old mental sharpness back.

Breakthrough

[Vulpix Sapiens]

Still, unlike some AD, I found it is safe to drive a car while taking SJW ...

[chelsey]

I started using Sam-e three weeks ago. I've tried St. John's Wort in the past but I'm also really sensitive to the side effects of any product (prescription or non) that I've tried for depression, so I've never made it to the total of 900mg per day that is supposed to be the therapeutic level for a lot of people.

I thought this round I would try something different and was intrigued by this thread. Hoping for some quick results but also knowing that if I didn't build myself up to the recommended level very slowly I would probably abort the mission, I cut a 200 mg of Nature's Harmony Sam-e into quarters and started off with 50mg. Within a fews days I was having a little insomnia and a bit of dry mouth but nothing I couldn't handle. I would taper off for a day or so and then start up again.

Upon further reading I realized I should try a brand that was packaged in a blister pack, so I switched to GNC. I'm now on day 2 of 200mg per day (whoo, hoo, that's pretty good for me!) and today for the first time I felt nauseous for about two hours and then it stopped. My mood, however, is a little more upbeat today, so I'm hoping if I can get over this hurdle it may work for me. I also have anxiety so I'm being really vigilant to see if Sam-e is going to have an adverse effect on that.

Has anybody who has contributed to this thread and suffered from nausea and other side effects hung in there and have the side effects abated? Vulpix, are you still taking it?

Would love to keep this thread going so please, keep contributing this great information.

Thanks,
Chelsey

[roy100]

I tried Sam-e, for a while, it made me way to anxious.
I could take it for almost 1 month, 200 mg, but when I took 400 mg I needed a horse size of sleping pills to be able to sleep.

I found a wonderfull web page, with a lot of descriptions on supplements, this link is for Sam-e:

http://www.raysahelian.com/sam-e.html

Yoou can find there all the information you can imagine !!!!!!!!

On that page you can read that the recomended dossage for Sam-e is way to high.

As for me I dont take any anymore.

Magnesium did the trick for me, and I really recomend it, on the same web page I am giving you.

Do your homework with magnesium, you will be astonished by the results !


Good luck.
roy100

[chelsey]

Thanks Roy, that was a very interesting article, especially the Q&A section. This Dr. seems to be aware that a lot of people do experience side effects with Sam-e (just as this thread has born out) and that it is o.k. to divide the 200mg tablets into quarters or halves (like a couple of us have).

Last night I don't think I ever went into a deep sleep and I'm pretty tired today, so I skipped my morning dose. Think I'll try very small dosages and see if they have any effect in the long run. I'm really prone to anxiety so I'm scared this is the next side effect I'm going to run into.

Searched the article but couldn't find anything about magnesium for depression (other than that he sells magnesium supplements). Is this all you're taking right now? In what dosages?

Thanks again.

[roy100]

Yes , anxiety has been a great issue with me, basically it was what lead me into depression.

Well since I was on AD,s ( Remeron ) , and quit them , some people would say I am in AD withdrawal, others would say,its a relapse ( PDR ), depending on who you ask.

I am taking 250 mg magnesium from GNC, and you are suppose to take as much as you can without stomach upseting.

To sleep , 1 pill Dormicun, 1 pill Lendormin, not available in the USA, but I am not there, and probably in Canada they would.

Magnesium is good for anxiety, and the depression is going away very , very slowly, with good days , and bad days, I am taking Acupuncture every week, and try to think positive.

A link to magnesium :

http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11035&highlight=magnesium+miracle

Its a wonderfull site too, as good as this one.
roy100

[patricia]

I've been reading the dosage levels of those taking SAMe and I'm rather surprised. I spoke with "Peter" at HBC protocols www.hbcprotocols.com (http://www.hbcprotocols.com) about SAMe and he said I should start with 1600 mg of SAMe!!!!!! From what I've read here that appears to be way overdosed! So I ordered (not from them but from iherb), 4 bottles thinking I will have to take 4 a day of 400 mg. But now I'm having second thoughts as to should I refuse the order when it comes in and just buy OTC one bottle to see how it works rather than spend all this money and discover after a couple days it is no good for me. Real perplexed here!!!!

[Quest]

I've been reading the dosage levels of those taking SAMe and I'm rather surprised. I spoke with "Peter" at HBC protocols www.hbcprotocols.com (http://www.hbcprotocols.com) about SAMe and he said I should start with 1600 mg of SAMe!!!!!! From what I've read here that appears to be way overdosed! So I ordered (not from them but from iherb), 4 bottles thinking I will have to take 4 a day of 400 mg. But now I'm having second thoughts as to should I refuse the order when it comes in and just buy OTC one bottle to see how it works rather than spend all this money and discover after a couple days it is no good for me. Real perplexed here!!!!

I cannot believe that anyone would recommend that starting dose.
Just as with SSRIs..you build it up IF you need to. Not only could you be asking for a possible major bad reaction, but it could make you completely manic and induce terrible nausea. 200mg is a basic starting dose...just once...to see how you react. If you are sensitive even 100mg. Im not even talking 3x a day here. Im talking about a build up. Of course some people do well on high doses...but to flood yourself right away with that is/could be quite dangerous. Just as one tapers to go off a drug it is always safer to taper upwards. Sam e is/can be quite potent. Be careful.

[patricia]

Quest thanks so much for your reply. I emailed my question and your reply to HBC protocols. I also will cancel my abundant order from iherb considering and just try out one bottle of SAMe in small doses. I am very sensitive to everything so I appreciate the input.

Yesterday was a bad day as I took L-tyrosine, 5 htp, rhodiola and 900 SJW. Was so sleepy and brain foggy ended up in bed all day. This morning just took L-tyrosine 2000 mg on an empty stomach and 100 5htp and that's all. And I feel 95% awake! Trying to regulate my serotonin/dopamine as I feel I may have too much serotonin. now hopefully the SAMe will help with the depression.

[roy100]

I agree with Quest , is better to be safe than sorry.
Sam-e can be good, but the great complain is anxiety, I could no take it after one month and this was with 400 mg .

Its better to start very slow, and do any changes every 3 weeks.

Even in the new boxes of Sam-e you can read on the 200 mg dosage ,( anxiety relief ) , but I think they way overdoze it, even at those 200 mg anxiety relief is very doutfull, because anxiety its a side effect of it .

Notice: all this notes are my personal observation !

[chelsey]

Sounds like a lot of people are on the same page here!

For sensitive people, Sam-e is really potent. I'm struggling with 50-100mg per day (yes, I cut up the tablets). I couldn't take any this morning because upon waking I felt nauseous even though it was 24 hours since my last dose. As I think Quest stated, Sam-e is cumulative in effect.

Patricia, you're taking a lot of supplements. Is nothing working? I would hesitate before adding Sam-e to the mix. Just my gut reaction. You might try it on its own for a while or with just one other supplement. I would recommend taking it in a very small dose and first thing in the morning - I don't take it on an empty stomach anymore after reading the link that roy100 included in a previous post - slows the rate and amount of absorption and that might be a good thing to start.

roy100 thank you also for that link on magnesium. Still making my way through it but it's intriguing. Glad it's making a difference for you.

[patricia]

wow! i can't get over the impact SAMe has in such low doses and to think it was suggested I take 1600 mg to start!!! I'd be dead. Well chelsey if you are having trouble with 50 mg I shd really cut down my tabs. I ordered 400 mg from iherb but I think I'll return them and get a lower dose and cut down to about 10 mg to start and work up from there. I agree about cutting down on my supps. When I begin the SAMe I will just continue my COQ10 and borage oil in the a.m. And take 5htp in the eve. I'm just about out of l-tyrosine and rhodiola and have not experienced anything with those two.

As an aside after reading about Saffron, that might be something to pursue in the future as a possibility if SAM does not work. thanks again for your input.

[roy100]

You are taking enough stuff already, you even shouldnt mix 5htp with sam-e, each has its own story, you need to read many , many posts and do your homework to be able to have a good judgement.

You just dont mix so much stuff; you wont know whats working , and what is not, you need to use and give chance to work each item , on its own.

Rushing WONT HELP, on the other hand it would be worse.

Yo need to stick to one single item for a period ( 3 weeks or more ) to be able to notice a difference.

If it doesnt work what:::::::::::::::: NO WAY TO THINK

You are setting yourself for a never ending game.

You worry about it when you get there !

Read , read and read about each remedy, and use everyone of them just one at a time, with time you will get exprerience, as to what works , and what doesnt.

The solution is personal, and everyone has its own quest.

Greetings roy100

[Quest]

You are taking enough stuff already, you even shouldnt mix 5htp with sam-e, each has its own story, you need to read many , many posts and do your homework to be able to have a good judgement.

You just dont mix so much stuff; you wont know whats working , and what is not, you need to use and give chance to work each item , on its own.

Rushing WONT HELP, on the other hand it would be worse.

Yo need to stick to one single item for a period ( 3 weeks or more ) to be able to notice a difference.

If it doesnt work what:::::::::::::::: NO WAY TO THINK

You are setting yourself for a never ending game.

You worry about it when you get there !

Read , read and read about each remedy, and use everyone of them just one at a time, with time you will get exprerience, as to what works , and what doesnt.

The solution is personal, and everyone has its own quest.

Greetings roy100

I really agree on this. Sometimes just a combo of supplements could cause a problem that a single one would not. OR worse, too MUCH serotonin.
Sam e is more stimulating, especially as it builds up. To take that with Rhodiola, HTP etc could give one the caffeine or panic high from hell. (Especially anxious types or those very sensitive to medications) But of course some people need a lot of stimulation to reach a level that recedes the depression. The key is to still go slow...whether you need more or less of a supplement. Tinker with one...keep a journal and note the effects. Then if you wish to add more, one at a time try that. Some of the "ready made" recipes for depression or anxiety that combine herbs and supplements can be great...but if you react badly..you will not know what causes it. A VERY good example of this is the fact that it is pretty well documented that taking B Complex aids depression and anxiety. So a lot of people take it. Me as well. When my mornings became uncomfortable with bouts of agitation I was quick to blame it on the HTP. My pdoc said to stop the B Complex and keep up with the HTP. It worked. So things such as vitamins are enough to throw the system off. Document what you take and how it makes you feel. Patience is not easy for many of us, but in the end it will be the key in finding what might work.

[patricia]

well that is very interesting about B vits being detrimental. it seems what i've read etc., left me with impression that B vits shd supplement what one was taking!! Anyway, have stopped everything everything the COQ10 1 tspn and 1/2 tspn of borage oil. So going to wait a week to get "clean" and then begin with a very small amount of SAMe. thanks for the info.

[Quest]

well that is very interesting about B vits being detrimental. it seems what i've read etc., left me with impression that B vits shd supplement what one was taking!! Anyway, have stopped everything everything the COQ10 1 tspn and 1/2 tspn of borage oil. So going to wait a week to get "clean" and then begin with a very small amount of SAMe. thanks for the info.


B Vitamins are considered very good in aiding the nervous system...but in "some" people...as myself...since my anxiety runs higher than the depression...the Bs agitate me...the "extra" Bs. I do take a basic multi with the usual RDA. B's are supposed to support the entire nervous system..but some people may even be too sensitive for the stimulation those extra milligrams could cause. Thats just an example of how anything can affect your body. Just always take note of what you take, how you feel, the times that you take it. And try, though hard as it may be...not to over-do and mix a potentially dangerous potion up. Even though I am studying naturopathy, I still work very closely with my pdoc, and he is integrating HTP, St Johns, and Sam e into his practice. His advice is invaluable to me when it comes to combining/ supplementing prescription meds and alternatives or taking an alternative route all together. The best, or Ill say usually safest advice that one can get is from an understanding and open minded doctor. The internet alone can sometimes only fuel fear or promote unhealthy practices. Research and ask a LOT of questions to your doctors.

[patricia]

thanks quest. you're fortunate to have docs to help you in your 'quest' (pardon the pun). but i do not know of any in my area who would be open to naturopathy, at least my two docs arn't. and my psyche prefers to go with the rx's. but going to follow your advice...keeping the journal etc. will keep you posted.

[patricia]

Thought I'd give an update on SAMe. I did not return my order after all but kept it for a few days as I was finishing up on the l-tyrosine, rhodiola combination that was not working for me. Anyway started out with 100 mg of SAMe, waited a few days no effect, increased to 200 for another few days and then continued to increase incrementally until I got to 1400 mg in the morning on an empty stomach. Tried 1600 but it gave me a stomach ache. Well so far so good. My brain fog is gone. Feel like life is okay after all and while my sleep is not so hot and hasn't been for 10 years, at least I don't go into a panic if I don't sleep all night thinking I'm going to crash in front of a client's face. I just take it in stride. I am actually motivated to exercise which I hate. All in all I'm taking one day at a time and being aware of any side effects. I never experienced nausea just a dull ache in my stomach at 1600 mg. So I am functioning well at 1400 mg.

[chelsey]

Isn't it amazing how we're all so different in what we can tolerate in terms of dosage and side effects. After a few days 100mg was giving me nausea and insomnia. Don't think I could ever increase to 1400mg per day.

Congratulations Patricia, glad this is making a difference for you.

[patricia]

thanks chelsey> Believe me I am so relieved, as I am one tough person to medicate for anything and I am just keeping my fingers crossed this really continues favorably. Depression for 12 to 15 years w/o any encouragement or hope is not worth living for. I sympathize so much with others who have depression and can't find something to work. And envy terribly those who are successful immediately.

[chelsey]

Patricia, I can certainly relate to your story. I've never been able to tolerate anti-depressants, even in small doses, because the side effects are always worse than the depression. The only relief is found in stopping the medication - then for a few weeks I'll feel pretty good but only in comparison to how crummy I felt taking the drugs.

Even taking supplements (tried St. John's Wort then SAMe and now 5HTP) I have to be really careful or side effects will outweigh the benefits. The good news is that by careful monitoring and adjustment I seem to be feeling better than I have for many, many years. Depression really does play a toll on people's lives and it's hard not to feel despair when nothing seems to work and it's easy to give up trying to find something that works and just live with the depression.

So we have to give ourselves full marks for keeping up the fight and celebrate our successes. I too am jealous of people that find instant relief but am glad that we can at least provide hope for those that don't. As we both know, sometimes it just takes a lot of trial and error - and patience, unfortunately lots and lots of that.

[Jeanine]

Hi,
Just thought I'd relate my experience with Sam-e. Since I'd stopped St. John's Wort a few weeks ago after many years on it, I decided to try Sam-e basically just to see what all the hype was about. I'm not sure I really needed it so that is one consideration to remember when reading my reaction to it. I just thought it might make me feel really good so I thought why not? I think our society is really brainwashing us now to think that there is a "happy pill" out there, whether it's a natural one or a prescription. So I think I need to step back from this thinking and just leave my poor brain alone! LOL
Anyway I brought the "nature made" brand and took 400mg as advised on the package. I felt fine and went about my day. But around 6 hours later I began to feel VERY nervous. Like I was going to have a panic attack. I could not sleep AT ALL last night. I woke this morning feeling violently ill with a terrible headache and nausea. So.....needless to say, this is definitly not something I would take again. I now understand what some of the previous posters were talking about when they said that people who have had panic/anxiety should not take this. I'm definitly one of those types of people, even though I haven't had a full-on panic attack that puts me in the ER in years now because of cognitive therepy. This stuff really has the potential to set that whole nightmarish process back in motion for me.
So, if you are like me and used to have or still have panic attacks...I strongly recommend that you steer clear of Sam-e.

[patricia]

hi jeanine: very interesting observation. Now I do not have anxiety or panic attacks, just depression so evidently it only works for depressive symptoms. I also like the contributions to the liver and joints. But I am now taking 1600 mg ...went back up to 1600 from 1400 the other day to see if I would get another stomachache and I didn't. I surmise it was something else that gave me the upset stomach. Because I feel great. No brain fog, alert, motivated. While not 100% better i am a heck of a lot better than before I took it. Which goes to show how unique our individual systems all are. thanks for the input.

[Jeanine]

Hi Patricia,
Yes, it's amazing how differently we can react to the same substance. I guess that's why there are so many different types of pharmaceutical anti-depressants on the market. I'm trying life without SJW or anything else now and just seeing how it goes. Except for yesterday, I've been feeling a whole lot better since I stopped taking SJW after taking it on and off since about '97 which is a long time to be taking anything. I really do think that SJW probably has the ability to heal depression which would probably be why it doesn't work anymore and started to make me feel weird. Anyway, good luck taking Sam-e...just be sure that you don't take it for too long a time because I understand it builds up in your system pretty quickly and then you might start having adverse effects.

[roy100]

If you are in withdrawal from any prescription AD your are more likely be extra -sensitive to all vitamins and many supplements.

Thats is one of the reazons as to why people react diferently:

More information:

http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12538&highlight=vitamin+sensitivity

[Jeanine]

I don't think I'm in withdrawal. SJW is not Paxil, thank the Maker! I have no withdrawal symtoms and feel fine. It's ok to just stop taking the herb without stepping down. Some people feel they want to step down and thats ok too but I have stopped cold turkey many times b4, ie. for surgury, breaks, ect. and have not had any withdrawal symptoms.

[Vulpix Sapiens]

Has anybody who has contributed to this thread and suffered from nausea and other side effects hung in there and have the side effects abated? Vulpix, are you still taking it?


No I am no longer taking SAM-e. In fact I must first solve a problem in my eyes which was caused by taking SJW last year. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
As for SAM-e side-effects, yes I experienced (a) some nausea (b) some heart burn (c) some unrest especially when going to bed in the evening and (d) some parkinson-style tremor in my right hand. I think I could overcome (a)(b)(c) but I am not so self-confident about (d). <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

[chelsey]

Vulpix, I want to thank you for replying to my question and also to say that I read about your problem with your eyes on another thread, and I wish you well in resolving it - I hope they heal with time!

[Vulpix Sapiens]

Chelsey,

Thank you very much for your support. It seems that I am getting slightly better, although i did nothing special for it .. :rolleyes:

Vulpix

[JustAguy]

Sorry to disagree..but I do.
Not a placebo in MY case. IT still is absorbed whether in the stomach or intestine. But I understand your point, everyone has an opinion. My opinion is based on reading many studies, working in the pharmacy industry for 7 years and working to finish a degree in naturopathy. And of course I did take Sam e to investigate and make my own opinion. Im not saying that you are wrong..Im saying that everyone is and/or believes differently at times.

I am curious as to why the tablet would then be enterically coated? This amino, as far as I understand it, is not well absorbed by the stomach and/or the low pH balance of the stomach negatively affects it.

[Quest]

I am curious as to why the tablet would then be enterically coated? This amino, as far as I understand it, is not well absorbed by the stomach and/or the low pH balance of the stomach negatively affects it.


Actually it can upset the stomach quite a bit..as 5HTP can do.
But it gets through and it is absorbed further in the intestine.

[patricia]

I thought I'd give an update on my SAMe experience. My last msg was in May 2007. I initially started out with 1600 mg of SAMe in the a.m. on an empty stomach. I continued for about 3 weeks and then began to titrate downward as I was feeling fantastic and realize that SAMe does buildup in the system. But my mood and joint problems are quite good and at the present time am on a maintenance of 400 mg daily. I did forget to take it while i was on vacation and noticed a big difference in my joint movement, very stiff hands. As soon as I got back I went back on it and within a day my hands became pain-free and my mood was more relaxed. I've experienced no nausea, or side effects and can honestly say after many, many years I've found some relief.:dance:

[chelsey]

Very happy that Sam-e is working so well for you, Patricia. Great news!

[Grrl2007]

After much reading on the forums, I've decided to skip some of the SJW mixtures and try SamE. I am currently taking 900-1200mg of SJW a day, as well as Kava Kava. The Kava has more of an effect than anything, calming my slight anxiety.

It seems many of you either do not have drs, or have drs that don't fully support a more natural remedy of depression. I don't have a dr at all and can't afford one, at all. Depression has made me quit my job, and I'm undergoing relocation expenses. I think even my dog is depressed. It sounds odd, but I try to be happier for her so that she can live the simple life of a care-free dog.
I think the move will work for me, helping me start anew.

I suffer moreso from depression, but anxiety has kicked in within the past month or so. I'm not exactly sure how to explain it. While my depression outweighs the anxiety, I'm a little on the fence about taking SamE.

I don't want to take a large mixture of anything. Actually, I would like to start off with one thing, see if that works, and if not, move to something else. Based on your personal experiences, knowledge, and the information I've provided, do you think Same is a the best foot forward? Or should I start with the 5-HTP and something else?

Opinions are very welcomed and appreciated here. I really want to get better, and while some days I motivated mentally, others I find it hard to leave my house to even go and get these natural alternatives. Please help if you can.

[patricia]

hi girlsp.. refer to my email above 6/24 re my SAMe. SJW did not help nor the 5htp nor rhodiola, nor saffron...but doing okay on the SAMe. I did start out with 1600mg as you can see above...and now am just on a maintenance dose of 400. This past weekend however I was out of town and did not take any SAM for 4 days and i noticed today I was beginning to feel down and that hopeless, anxious feeling. So this evening as soon as my stomach was empty took 800 mg and will begin my regimen of 400 tomorrow eve. I checked both vitacost and iherb for the best price...and i forget which was the better of the two, i don't have my receipts available to me at this time...Doctor's Best double strength 400 mg is what I get. it's all trial an error if one does not have a doctor. And frankly my medical doctor would poo-poo this regimen anyway preferring to offer me some rx drug...which i've tried all and could not handle side effects. good luck! patricia

[Grrl2007]

Based on what I read...Pat, you started in very low doses correct? And gradually went up to 1400mg?

Are you doing other things in your lifestyle to improve your depression? I just don't want to stop using and then feel depressed again. I want this to help me overcome depression, in addition to lifestyle changes, and then ultimately not have to take anything. Of course, this might not be possible, but I don't yet know the future and what I might have to endure.

You all have said to start with 50mg? Should I do that or start with the instructions on the box? I haven't purchased it yet, and am wondering if I would find it at my local healthfood store (WholeFoods). Or is it best to order online? And if so, any sites anyone can recommend? I really need to get started on something soon.

[sleepybree03]

With Sam-e, will I have to take it forever in order to feel okay or is it something I might take for a while to get all those chemicals in the brain how they need to be and then I will be able to come off the meds?

[Vulpix Sapiens]

With Sam-e, will I have to take it forever in order to feel okay or is it something I might take for a while to get all those chemicals in the brain how they need to be and then I will be able to come off the meds?

Sleepy,

In some posts people mention a "starting" dosage to beat down the depression in the short term and a "maintenance" dosage to keep it away for the long term. In SAM-e more than in other drugs the dosage is very much people-dependent, but the standard dosage could be 800 mg/day for starting and 200 mg for maintenance.

If you have been depressed for a short time then maintenance can be short. I have an example in another forum of someone who took SAM-e for 6 months and no longer needs it now. If you have been depressed for a long time then you may need SAM-e for a long time too. But here you will find two difficulties. First, SAM-e is known to loose some efficiency with time. Second, not much is know about long term effects of SAM-e. Until now I failed to find someone who has been under SAM-e, let say, for 10 years.

VS

[Grrl2007]

I started taking SAMe about two weeks ago, and it has helped. I started with 200mg, and am now up to 800mg. I am taking it slow, but tomorrow I'll be increasing to 1000mg.

I got the ginger capsules for the nausea, which isn't as intense as with some other users. And though I also suffer from anxiety, this hasn't increased that greatly.

The only question I really have at this point is, energy-wise, how has everyone reacted? When I was on lower dosages, when first starting, it actually made me rather sleepy. When I first started 600mgs it gave me energy. How has everyone else reacted as far as your energy?

I also have a rather buzzy feeling for about an hour after I take it, but it's nothing I can't handle, and subsides after about an hour.

[Vulpix Sapiens]

More intellectual energy but a little bit less physical enargy, in actions such as climbing stairs.

VS

[tj88]

Is SAMe safe and/or effectvie with Rhodiola?

[tmm1]

I've tried SAMe (NSI brand from vitacost, 400mg) and its very effective for me but I get severe abdominal pain and GI upset after taking it. Has anyone else experienced the same- do the side effects disappear after a while, or improve if I gradually increase my dosage?

The pills are enteric coated and blister packed so I'm not sure if cutting them up is going to be effective.

[Vulpix Sapiens]

Are you taking SAM-e on an empty stomach or after a meal ? I suggest that for a few days you take only one half of the pill (200 mg) after a meal and see what happens. Your abdominal pain should be relieved, efficiency could also go down but maybe not so much due to cumulative effect of SAM-e.

[tmm1]

Are you taking SAM-e on an empty stomach or after a meal ? I suggest that for a few days you take only one half of the pill (200 mg) after a meal and see what happens. Your abdominal pain should be relieved, efficiency could also go down but maybe not so much due to cumulative effect of SAM-e.

For the past three days I've been taking half a pill (200mg) twice daily, once in the morning after waking up and the other after lunch. So far no abdominal pain, and if anything it's helped regulate my GI. Tomorrow I'm going to try increasing up to 400mg twice daily and see how it goes.

[Vulpix Sapiens]

OK, Go ahead !

VS

[laurie_lu]

I've just started taking SAMe this week. For one day I took only 100mg of Nature Made's brand to make sure I wasn't gonna have any stomach upset. Yesterday and today I am up to 200mg and so far my stomach is OK. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this is the answer for me since a couple months of taking Roseola Rosea was useless. 5-HTP worked fairly well but only for a few months. SJW worked the best but left me feeling extremely sleepy and fatigued. I also believe SJW also produced floaters in my right eye that still won't go away. The risk of documented cataracts while taking SJW scares the crap out of me too. I don't wanna risk my vision just to feel better.

For one more day Walgreen's is having 'buy one get one free' for the Nature Made brand. I'm not sure if I should repurchase this brand again or go online to Vitacost.com and buy the NSI brand of SAMe. I got one day to decide I guess. I only bought the 12 dose box from Walgreens.

edited: Looks like 200mg is too strong for me. By mid morning, my head was feeling weird. I got pressure in my ears and jaw with a dizzy feeling while up and about. It's hard to explain but I can tell something is not normal. My limbs feel sorta jittery. Tomorrow I'm gonna just take 100mg.

[Zombie]

Hi,

I have been taking Nature Made Mood Plus SAMe for the last 5 days on an empty stomach. For the first 3 days I took 400mg in the morning then 400mg in the afternoon but found that I was getting major headaches in the afternoon which would last most of the night.

I am now just taking 400mg in the morning & that's it. I also take KIRA SJW 900mg before bed which I have been taking for 2 weeks. Trouble is, I don't seem to be feeling anything from the SAMe or the KIRA for that matter. In fact, I actually feel less happy & very stern. All I did the latter half of last week was pick arguments with people at work!

My question is, how much SAMe should I be taking & should I carry on taking the higher dosage regardless of the headaches? I know that I had headaches with Fluoxetine at the start but they went away after a few days. I just don't want to carry on taking an 800mg dose of SAMe if it's gonna give me headaches & eventually not work anyway. I also don't want to carry on taking the 400mg dose if it just aint gonna work.

Also, I don't know if the SAMe is influencing the KIRA in a negative way. When I took KIRA about 6 weeks ago I could feel the effects after just a week but then I stopped taking it for reasons I have stated on other threads. Now I've been back on it for 2 weeks &.......nothing!

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that I'm feeling rubbish at the moment. Negative, unhappy & down right miserable to be around. :frown:

Can anybody help?

[Vulpix Sapiens]

I also believe SJW also produced floaters in my right eye that still won't go away. The risk of documented cataracts while taking SJW scares the crap out of me too. I don't wanna risk my vision just to feel better.
Laurie,

I also had floaters with SJW, and more than that. Your brain will gradually learn to ignore them. Also if don't take more crap they will gradually disappear. Just make sure that you drink enough and go to your eye doctor if you see flashes.

All the best. VS

[Zombie]

I apologise for re-posting this but I am an inch away from knocking everything on the head & just going back to the meds if things don't improve for me very soon.


Hi,

I have been taking Nature Made Mood Plus SAMe for the last 5 days on an empty stomach. For the first 3 days I took 400mg in the morning then 400mg in the afternoon but found that I was getting major headaches in the afternoon which would last most of the night.

I am now just taking 400mg in the morning & that's it. I also take KIRA SJW 900mg before bed which I have been taking for 2 weeks. Trouble is, I don't seem to be feeling anything from the SAMe or the KIRA for that matter. In fact, I actually feel less happy & very stern. All I did the latter half of last week was pick arguments with people at work!

My question is, how much SAMe should I be taking & should I carry on taking the higher dosage regardless of the headaches? I know that I had headaches with Fluoxetine at the start but they went away after a few days. I just don't want to carry on taking an 800mg dose of SAMe if it's gonna give me headaches & eventually not work anyway. I also don't want to carry on taking the 400mg dose if it just aint gonna work.

Also, I don't know if the SAMe is influencing the KIRA in a negative way. When I took KIRA about 6 weeks ago I could feel the effects after just a week but then I stopped taking it for reasons I have stated on other threads. Now I've been back on it for 2 weeks &.......nothing!

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that I'm feeling rubbish at the moment. Negative, unhappy & down right miserable to be around. http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/emoticons/frown.gif

Can anybody help?

[laurie_lu]

From the research I did, 400mg is the recommended dose for SAM-e. It also states that over time it builds up in your system and you might require a lower dosage. Maybe you're overdosing your body on it. In fact maybe you're having seritonin syndrome(too much seritonin) by combining high doses of SAM-e and SJW.

Personally if it were me, I would NOT combine the two. Look up the signs and symptoms of seritonin syndrome.

[Zombie]

Thanks for your advice Laurie. I went down to the 400mg a day dose for a few days & found that the headaches disappeared. However, I was still feeling miserable with everybody so I decided to knock it on the head completely.

I'm now just taking 900mg Kira SJW in the morning, Saffron twice a day & 50mg Nature's Way 5-HTP before bed. I'm still not feeling anything from the SJW & it's been 3 weeks. It's strange that the last time I took it I could feel it within a week & a half.

Anyway, I'm going to give it another week or so &, if all is still not good, I'm going back to the meds for the time being. I stopped Fluoxetine last February &, since the beginning of May, I've felt depressed. All summer up until now I have tried & tested many herbal alternatives which have just been a disappointment for me. Therefore, last summer was an absolute waste of my life.

I am now looking for a quick fix so I'm going to try Escitalopram(Lexapro). There is no way I'm going to keep on spending huge amounts of money on natural remedies & waiting ages for them to work just to be disappointed over & over again. Christmas will be here in another five weeks & I don't plan on spending this "happy" occasion as a grumpy old miserable mess.

Maybe I'll come back to the natural stuff another time, but for now, I'm gonna find the quickest & easiest way to escape this horrible black hole that I've fallen into.

Thanks again for your response. ;)

[tmm1]

First day: 200mg SAM-e on empty stomach, noticeable mood improvement
Second day: 200mg SAM-e on empty stomach, again great day
Third day: woken from sleep in the morning with severe stomach pain, upset stomach through most of the day

This happens over and over, everytime I get on SAM-e again.. always in the morning the day after my last dose. Any suggestions?

Also, to others thinking of trying SAM-e, I would suggest figuring out what type of depression you have first. Some types (under-methylation) respond very well to SSRIs and SAM-e, while others do not. Here are some great links based on research done by the Pfeiffer Treatment Center (http://www.hriptc.org):

http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/condition.php?category=neuro&condition=Depression

http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/pfeiffer.htm

http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/articles-content.php?heading=Major%20Mental%20Illness%20Bio chemical%20Subtypes

[Vulpix Sapiens]

http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/condition.php?category=neuro&condition=Depression

Very interesting and ... paradoxal information.
Your source says B6 works against B9 (folic) + B12
although usual sources says they work together.

[Islander1]

I was on sam-e for about 6 months (for anxiety - SAD & GAD), took the usual dosage, it worked wonders for about 2 -3 months , i actually felt like my old self again, outgoing fun energetic - no paranoid thoughts associated with SAD and GAD - could fall asleep in a matter real easy etc etc, then it suddenly started to wear off, however i kept taking it and i noticed that it felt like the sam-e was eating my stomach inside out, almost like it felt like ACID was eating away my stomach lining. I began to loose weight, and felt un-easy, anxiety slowly returning etc so i stopped taking it. After i stop taking it i noticed my mood kinda of balanced out, maybe i was feeding my system 2 much sam-e and it was overdosing on the chemical. Anyway since that didn't work out its another case of trail and error. I'm now looking to try 5htp or maybe stress relief supplements.
Any1 heard of gotu kola? i just started taking for a month or so now... along with avena saitva, seems to be working pretty good