here's what i found out

[blackbird]

hi all,

did a bunch of web-searching and phone-calling re Rhodiola Rosea, and here are some of the things i've found out:

a great site to visit is: www.rhodiolarosea.org (this is DR. Ramazanov's site.)

apparently this one russian Dr. has been one of the main pioneers for researching RR and also bringing it to us in the states, so to speak. he has impressive credentials. no specific RR products were recommended on the site, just very specific and extensive info of the whats, whys and hows of RR and what to look for/avoid in a product. this dr. has written four books about it over the years, so i guess it could be said that something was being 'sold' on the site, but so what, honestly i think it's a very trustworthy and erudite site and the guy really is one of the experts (and i am not trying to sell something or on their pay roll etc. etc.).

in the last couple days, i've inquired about all the favorite RR products mentioned on this RR forum, trying to figure out which one to order. as it turned out, disappointingly i might add, not one of those companies gets their RR from Siberia. Nature's plus, Enymatic Therapy, Solarg, Nature's Way, all get their RR from China or 'Europe', none of the product info people could say, specifically, 'Siberia'. apparently there are something like 20 strains of rhodiola, and only the one grown in Siberia has the specific make-up/proper balance of the crucial compounds, to yield the beneficial results RR is said to have had in the studies. forgive my layperson translation of what i read etc. i had bought two brands which were available in my local stores-- Solaray and NOW, just to have something until i could order one of the the cool, cutting-edge brands. of course i called Solaray and NOW too (just got off the phone with NOW), and they both use Siberian grown RR, however, NOW brand says 'standardized' on it's label and Solaray says 'guarenteed', so that may imply a difference in quality control, i dunno. anyway, while i was chatting with the NOW product info guy, he said they got their RR through none other than DR. Ramazanov, the big deal RR researcher. so i have a feeling that the NOW is pretty good stuff. what a surprise. i had no idea they were so, ya know, cutting edge. i just picked up a bottle because it was available locally, until i could order a "good one'. turns out maybe it IS the good one. but i'm still going to email this Dr. Ramazanov and ask which companies/products he would recommend. NOW should be one of them if the NOW representative was being truthful. i also want to read Dr. R.'s book: Rhodiola Rosea for Chronic Stress Disorder. but i will check into other sources as well to get a well-rounded data base. anyway, the NOW guy, name is Nick, says that he personally contacted this Dr. Ramazanov when he was looking into bringing Rhodiola Rosea into the NOW product line. guess Nick likes to take RR himself, so i asked him a few questions, since he claims to have discussed RR extensivly with DR. R. still take this with a grain of salt since this guy himself is not a dr./researcher. i asked about the RR wearing off and he said that it is supposed to correct neurotransmitters, so eventually you would not feel that rush you felt in the beginning of taking it, which means you are actually sort of well, at that point, the RR has done it's job. so i asked, should you then stop taking it or continue? he suggested cycling it-- say, three days on, rest of the week off. but i plan to look into this more by reading what different doctors and researchers would recommend. i've had a good reaction to the NOW. i took my first cap of Solaray this am, just to try it, and got a bad headache and a bit jaggier of a RR buzz. the NOW seems smoother.

just my comments from the peanut gallery, trying to be helpful. sorry such long posts, i'm a long-winded writer/talker. delete some of my other posts if need be. this one is at least a little informative i hope. will let you know if/what i hear back after contacting Dr. Ramazanov.

[burtonar]

I haven't revisited this forum because of lack of response as you mentioned previously. I read your post and must reply... I have been taking the NOW brand for several months now. Initially I took the advice of Sonic and others recommending brands that are difficult to find and more expensive. The NOW brand seems to have a higher percentage of what is supposed to be important right? Like you, I was skeptacle, but didn't do the research- just took it upon myself to test it out. So anyway, I don't remember really feeling any significant effect when I started taking it at first. (But, for all the other recommended brands I didn't feel any difference either). Once I start taking something, I think I sort of convince myself that it is working and I need to continue taking it. So, I have been taking the Now brand without any cycling for several months. Maybe that's where i''m going wrong and have just built up a tolerance? Or maybe I'm not taking enough? I take just one capsule in the morning before breakfast. I haven't had any adverse reactions, and I take other NOW brand supplements, so the guy you spoke with is hopefully ligit. I might try to cycle RR to see if it really helps me. I have a lot of anxiety and tend to go through depressed moods. Thanks for sharing your info from calling these brands! I'll be sure to relay any more info that I may find.

[blackbird]

hi burtonar,

i really wish you luck with your experimentation. i think that one thing this forum shows us is how incredibly unique everyone is, what a big range of possibility there is for how we each react to these 'medicines'. it seems to me that if the NOW RR were working, you'd have noticed something after 3 months. you'd notice a difference in your anxiety level, there'd be some degree of 'leveling out' of your symptoms. maybe you should try sjw, or are you already taking it with the RR?

i'm sort of experimenting with taking sjw with the RR. i've been combining perika with the RR but it's still too soon to reach hard & fast conclusions. though i've been assured there are no counterindications, such as seratonin syndrome, and it's ok to take both, i was feeling a little seratonined out, or seratonin over-kill, after taking top recommended daily doses of both. i've started cutting back on the perika and that is improving things. i noticed that some avid sjw people only take one or two of the suggested three 300mg doses per day, so that is something that can be adjusted and tinkered with.

yesterday i took too much RR and it was not pleasant. i decided to try the Solaray brand in the morning instead of the NOW, and almost immediatly got this bad headache and racing hypertension feeling. i had just bought the Solaray because so far they were the only brand i knew of that got the RR from Siberia. i just didn't think NOW brand would be, so even though i really liked the NOW, i was already 'replacing' it . then i made more calls and found out the NOW is indeed authentic Siberian RR (you read the email), so since i always have a nice reaction to the NOW, i figured i'd take it on top of the Solaray and somehow it would all work out. nope. just left me feeling REALLY yukky. definitly starting to get the 'less is more' idea.

so i wonder also if maybe you are taking too much of the RR or too little even? the NOW product info guy said the usual recommended daily dose is 500mg, though an individual may need up to 1,000 mg, it's highly variable that way, he said. though that much is generally not recommended from what i've read on other sites-- seems usually 600 or more like 500 mg is tops. are you taking sjw with your RR? i'm still on the fence as to whether this is a good idea. even though i'm combining, i have been able to a little bit suss out the specific effects the sjw has on me since i take it at night and the RR only in the morning. it's very stabilizing, sort of buffering, seems to buffer me from too much sensitivity to my outer AND inner experiences. too much of it, in conjuntion with the RR, makes me feel too numb and foggy, hard to concentrate. the RR seems to smooth jumpiness/anxiety and give a little lift. i'm afraid to drop the sjw because of the grounding, buffering sensation. i often feel like i am way too sensitive and flitty, i need to be more comfortable/restful just being, being me. but too much seratonin can be--well, depressing. it numbs the good stuff as well as the bad stuff. all just food for thought.

anyway, i plan to email Dr. Ramazanov and ask him, among other things, if it's a good idea to combine sjw and RR.

don't know if blathering on about my own experiences so far was helpful or not. anyone else have any advice for burtonar?

[burtonar]

Blackbird, thanks for such a thoughtful, in-depth response. I appreciate your trying to help. To answer a few of your questions... I can't take SJW because I take birth control pills and it lowers their efficacy. However, my dad has been taking SJW with great benefit for about a year now. I agree in that every individual has different levels of the transmitters which make us either happy, sad, anxious, depressed. I.E. seratonin, dopamine, norepi, etc. It's really pretty difficult to treat, I think, because even the prescriptions have side effects that end up being worse than the intial condition. I really think too that a lot of my anxiety is situational and career related, so I'm not sure really any drug can rid me of the feeling altogether and I must keep learning to face it. I also have read studies that show RR is beneficial in improving the immune system as well as increasing energy levels. I do think it helps give me a slight "lift" when I take it in the morning. Another supplement I have been taking for about two years now is 5-HTP at night. I usually take 100mg and it really helps with sleep. I find when taking it during the day, it makes me too "groggy". As far as the RR, I took a break over the weekend and I felt more of a difference when I took it this morning- a "slight lift", so I'll continue to take it and maybe try to increase the dose after I take another break. Again, thank you for all the info you have found about RR and taking the time to respond. Good luck with your RR efforts and hopefully someone else will be able to add some additional advice.

[blackbird]

hi burtonar,

i really really do wish you luck with finding the right solution. maybe too, think about seeing an alternative-minded health professional (psychologist or doctor). my friend, who first got me thinking about sjw a few weeks back, just suggested the same to me, after i told her about my brilliant move-- combining sjw and RR (and making myself even more crazy). you are worth the expense and trouble, your happiness is worth it. i have a new friend who is a psychologist and when i told him about my panic attacks he gave me some gabba and another new cutting-edge one, the one derived from green tea, can't find the name right now. starts with a T? he thought those would work better for me than sjw. but this was a few weeks back and now i like the RR. i never took them, but the point is, a professional might know of more options than we do, and how to combine things... much as we are trying to find out what we can on our own, we don't have their education and resources. well, i really wish you healing and happiness. i'll let you know what i find out from contacting that russian doctor's web-site, if they ever do answer my questions about RR, esp. about which brand is best and how to cycle it.

[hopeful]

hi blackbird and burtonar,

i am finding these posts very useful. it seems like Rhodiola Rosea is definitiely something worth exploring. I have a question, is there a Rhodiola Rosea section where you can find this stuff at a drug store or is it somewhere else under a different name? It seems like 'NOW' brand is only available at Fruitful Vitamins store, right? I've seen these stores when I lived in chicago area but haven't seen them here in northeast.
BTW, what is 5-htp and is it also good for depression?

Thanks,
hopeful

[blackbird]

dear hopeful,

sorry it took me a couple days to get back to you! have not been on the forum for a spell. where i live, which is a pretty progressive, alternative-health-minded town, the NOW brand is very popular and is all over the place. if i were you i'd call them and ask for help finding a distributer in your locale. google NOW and then click on "contact us" for the phone#. the other stuff you have to order on line. i found another on line company besides Ameriden who makes a Rhodiola Product also endorsed by Dr. Ramazanov, their web-site will pop up if you google search medicine-plants. maybe throw in 'rhodiola rosea' or 'ramazanov' into the search phrase. i could give you both web-site adresses but i think it might be in poor taste since this forum is not supposed to be in any way involved with commerce. i was happy to find yet another authentic RR product (made by medicine-plants) so i'm not just drawing attention to one in particular. but it is hard to find the authentic RR. so far i've only found these two for sure, the NOW brand is probably a third good bet but i still want to explore that further, they don't have quite as much evidence as the other two, they are just saying that they get their RR through Dr. Ramamzanov's source, but anyone can say anything. probably they are OK, i've had really strong results with their product, but i still wonder about it a little because really pure RR usually comes in 100 or 150 mg doses. any more than that is too much. well NOW comes in 500mg caps and they say you can take 2/day. i think even one is too strong. i mean it does have a strong effect, so it could well be authentic, but why is there so much in a cap and why is it so cheap? the stuff that comes from Siberia is hard to get, compared to other inferior products and this is usually reflected in the price... it has to be. in this case slightly more expensive seems to be an indicator of authenticity. but i mean to call NOW and also to get in touch with Dr. Ramazanov's people, since there is a way to email them questions, and ask them about the different brands including NOW. i liked NOW a lot but had to pour out half the capsule for the optimal dose. for me, a half cap was the magic dose. i am a 5ft. 7" woman at about 125 pounds. a bigger person might need a little more, a smaller person less. but with the really pure products you do not exceed 100 or 150mg, twice/day, generally speaking. the NOW brand can be found in health food stores and is less than $10 i believe, for 60 500mg caps. the on line brands mentioned here are say between $5 and $10 more expensive depending on potency of caps and number of caps... plus shipping and handling. still rediculously cheap for such an awesome medicine.

if you go to medicine-plants website, and click for their rhodiola product as if you were going to order (their product is called Rhosavin100-- easy to confuse with Ameriden's product which is called Rosavin!), you'll see a bunch of titles to the right of the product info that you can click on for rhodiola info and articles. they are lined up to the right of the Rosavin100 product info. more cool stuff to read, including an article from Newsweek from 2003.

i like the Ameriden's Rosavin fine, may be a little smoother than the NOW (but i still like NOW). i tried Ameriden's more potent product which is Rosavinplus and it was too strong for me. i am now taking just the regular Rosavin, 100mg two times a day. i've read that some people are sensitve and need to work up to higher doses. some people may need to start out with even just 50 mg. you'll know you've taken too much if you feel too sedated/disconnected while possibly feeling agitated/hyper at the same time. but don't get upset or frustrated, once you find what works for you it is very nice, very effective. just requires a little trial and error. always remember less is more with RR. not everyone responds to it very strongly. let's hope you are one of the lucky ones. (otherwise, don't give up, you just have not found the right medicine for you, yet, but you will!) i absolutely love the stuff (RR). there is no doubt it is helping me A LOT. it is very physiological, a real physical (as well as mental/emotional) experience... by no means imaginary or placebo.

i remember trying 5 htp a few years back, it is calming but very sedating. i really think it needs to have a warning about driving/drowsiness! i almost had a couple car accidents while taking it. a lot of people seem to really like it though, you can put it on the search engine here on kelly's forum and stuff will probably pop up. watch out for combining stuff though, it usually is overkill.

bestaluck!

[hopeful]

hi blackbird,

thanks for the reply. I don't think there should be a problem with you posting those websites here for people to use! it seems like I can try any drug/health store brand as long as they use the siberian plant extract. I did some research of my own and it seems like rhodiola rosea is good for recovering from physical activity and general mental/emotional and physical health but does it really help with depression like sjw seems to for most people?
From what you said about the NOW brand, i think i'll try something else because it may be too much/strong specially for somone just starting out with this. It seems like gnc has something that works. I'll also look into the Ameriden brand.
i was just asking about 5-htp because I heard about it on this forum and was curious. i am not planning on mixing 2 different medicines.... Too many variables this way and then you wouldn't know what caused something undesired.
Anyway, I'll keep you posted. Please let me know if you find something new!!

Thanks,
hopeful

[Meri-Tuuli]

Why don't you read 'The Rhodiola Revolution' (google it on amazon)

Its very very helpful, and is written in conjunction with Dr Ramxarof (or whatever that Russian guy is called).

I used New Chapter Rhodiola rosea for several months. It was very good, but it kinda increased my anxiety alot, but it was great for mood and energy.

Kind regards

Meri

[blackbird]

great suggestion merri, for both hopeful and me...

i've been planning to get the book you mentioned by Dr. Richard Brown.

Dr. Zakir Ramazanov is even more of an authority than Dr. Brown (he is the scientist Dr. Brown fist approached when checking into RR, they have since done a lot of work together, co-authored together etc.). Dr. Ramazanov has several books out on Rhodiola Rosea. he wrote an entire book on RR and chronic stress disorder. i've just been spending so much money trying all these different supplements/products, i have not gotten around to ordering them (plus i've been able to temporarily satisfy a lot of my questions by looking at articles by the two doctors on the net). but i agree with merri, best to go to the source and get the whole scoop from the leading authorities.

i'm finding that the Rosavin from Ameriden is starting to make me very sleepy. i love the stuff, but it has been making me real drowsy. the ameriden product info. person said that i should cut the dose back, so i got some v-caps and am splitting the cap into two. strange because at first the stuff was real wirey. ameriden's product info person said she is going to send me free samples of another product called ClearMind, only 75mg of RR per cap, mixed with two other synergistic herbs to help regulate those neurotransmitters better (i think i may be sleepy from too much seratonin?). i would normally be suspicious of a combo formula, but she says that none other than Dr. Brown and Dr. Ramazanov designed this formula together, originally it was with Alzheimer's folks especially in mind. also effective for depression, stress, anxiety etc. it might be just the ticket. she also says that only ameridan gets it's RR through Dr. Ramamzanov. she seems to be saying the rest are not the real deal, they are RR but from china or somewhere else, that somehow you get the real siberian stuff through Dr. Ramazanov or you don't get it at all. he has his own company that supplies the raw RR to suppliment companies. she says that the only two companies she knows of that get it from him are ameriden and a neutriceutical company that only sells to doctors/you can't get it except through a presciption. take that for what it's worth. the NOW guy seemed a little cagey when i called back asking further details about their RR source. the ameriden lady said that if NOW is really getting their RR from Dr.Ramazanov (who gets it from Siberia), they should be able to provide a certificate of origin. you can request one, same goes for other companies. i think that's about the extent of my company sleuthing. i'm just getting mine from ameriden at this point since they are certifiable and those two doctors highly endorse them. (Dr. Brown states that he is in not getting any financial profit through the sales of any RR product.) but that's just me. when it comes to my brain chimistry i don't want to screw around. the NOW definitely does something though, it does have an effect. but i think their dosage is way too high/you would definitly want to buy empty caps and cut up the dose.

if any of you want to try the ameriden products, call ameriden, ask to speak with a product info person, and they will very likely send you a week's worth of samples. you can call them back with any questions you have after trying the samples, they may have further recommendations and they may send samples of something else for you to try. they are quite generous, seem to want to help you zoom in on the right thing for you.

i'll go ahead and give the web site, if kelly thinks it's a no-no he will delete it and that's fine. click on 'contact' for their toll-free phone number.

www.ameriden.com

that book 'the rhodiola revolution' is also for sale on their site

[Meri-Tuuli]

great suggestion merri, for both hopeful and me...

Dr. Zakir Ramazanov is even more of an authority than Dr. Brown (he is the scientist Dr. Brown fist approached when checking into RR, they have since done a lot of work together, co-authored together etc.).

Well I wouldn't say that one is more of an authority than another - yes Dr Ramazanov is the guy who translated alot of the orginal research papers that were in Russian, and its true he has know about the stuff longer than Dr Brown, but Dr Ram. isn't a pdoc (AFAIK) and Dr Brown is, so he has much more clinical experience with RR than Dr Ram. who is more of a research scientist.

Yes, in the 'rhodiola revolution' they recommend using Ameriden's products. I personally used New Chapters rhodiolaforce 100mg, which is also claimed to be "harvested after a minimum four-year growth in the forests of the Altai regions of Siberia" which you were interested in the siberian aspect.

http://www.new-chapter.com/product/product.lasso?-Search=Action&-Table=P_Web&-Database=NewChapter&-KeyValue=178


Interestingly, RR is supposed to give you insomnia not sleepliness, although I suppose anything can happen!

I actually live in Finland, so calling those guys at Ameriden probably isn't cheap.

At the mo I'm actually taking a herbal blend prescribed to me by a herbalist containing

Schizandra
Damiana
Siberian ginseng
Ginkgo biloba
rosemary

I stopped taking the rhodiola because I found it increased my anxiety somewhat.

Whats in that Ameridan product they sent you samples for?

Also, I wonder to what extent it matters where the RR is grown - as long as the growing conditions are the same, and the species is the same - but its very complicated I have to admit.

Kind regards

[blackbird]

hi merri,

sorry it took me so long to get beck to your question about which product. my internet service was down for a few days.

sounds like you have really read and looked into this stuff! regretably, i'm sure i've made a ton of inaccurate assumptions/statements in my posts because i've only had the internet for research, plus i was just in a frenzy to find out the most relevant information to treat my own symptoms. i shared what i found out in case it might be useful to the forum and save other people a bit of trouble, but take it all with a big grain of salt. for example, i really haven't studied the clinical trials done on RR, i've quickly scanned them. i was impressed with the general reports on RR, enough to try it, and then i am mostly going by my own experiences with it at this point, which are signifigant (the stuff is very potent!!)... not even reading much anymore. i'm too busy with school and job and other interests to want to read up on it beyond the vital bits of info i needed to get going with it. i think there is truth to what you say, there have got to be other sources, not just the stuff being provided through Dr. Ramazanov. i am just going with Ameriden because i know for sure they are one of the authentic ones and i don't have the time or interest to investigate further, since the ameriden product works great for me. i should be more specific, because the straight Rhodiola did not work out for me in the long term, it was making me rediculously drowsy and hard to get anything done. the first couple weeks it was very enegizing, like you were saying. then it turned around to the opposite. they say that you know you are taking too much when it makes you sleepy. in the right amounts it should be energizing. i called the Ameriden product info person and she said i should stop taking the Rosavinplus or even the Rosavin (which is a weaker dose), wait a few days and then try a product called ClearMind. she said she thought that would be a much better product for me. this product was designed by none other than both Dr. Brown and Dr. Ramamzanov, she said. originally it was especially with Alzheimers in mind, but it is suitable for general use too and also treats depression, anxiety etc. you can read about it on the Ameriden site. it comes in capsules of 75mg Rhodiola Rosea combined with two other ingredients--rhododendron caucasium (a siberian strain of rhododendron, i think), and ribes nigrum (which is black current extract). she said the other ingredients help to further regulate neurotransmitters so that they are in proper balance. by the time i got the free samples i was not too hopeful, i was rather down over the RR not working out for me anymore. it was making me so groggy that i was sinking into a worse than ususal depression... completely hard to be motivated in my life. my anxiety was tranquilized but so were any positive feelings (i could be wrong on this but perhaps i was under the influence of too much seratonin)... still, i tried the ClearMind samples she sent me... and it was great!!! better than the straight RR ever was. several days later and i absolutely love the stuff. it's calming and grounding but also energizing, and my mind stays clear/sharp, so it seems to work nicely for my particular brain chemistry. i guess everyone is so different, you know? i don't know if it would work as great for you, but for me it is PERFECT. i mostly only need one in the morning, but if i have a stressful/challenging day ahead, i'll take the second one early afternoon (they recommend one in the morning and the option of a second one early afternoon for the reason of possible insomnia if taken too late in the day).

if calling ameriden is too expensive from where you live, you can email them on their site, i'm sure they would get back to you pretty quick. you could ask for the samples in your email. but it you like the brands/products you already have experience with, then that's great. if it ain't broke, don't fix it, as they say. since i have found what works for me, i don't have too much else to say on this forum. time for other people trying RR to report their experiences for everyone else to gleen from! i'll check back now and then though. best of luck to you and everyone!!

[Meri-Tuuli]

Hello

Thanks for the reply.

Yes I seriously don't doubt that Ameriden's stuff isn't good. Its interesting what you say about ClearMind - the authors in that book I recommended ('The Rhodiola Revolution') using RR with rhododendron caucasium for weight loss. I'll have a look at Clear Mind now...

Kind regards

Meri-Tuuli

[Guai girl]

Hi folks,don't know whether Blackbird and Hopeful et al who posted back in September are still posting,but I thank you for all the fantastic effort of researching and posting said info on RR, as I think my husband would like to try it next,as the SJW doesn't appear to be working after 9mths! Your info and advice is amazing and although we're in the UK,I hope we'll be able to order the RR from Ameriden in the U.S. soon.Do they ship over Rosavin to the UK does anyone know please and what are the titration recommendations?Is it necessary to titrate down from 3mg SJW slowly before starting RR? Thanks for all the help!Love Nin:dance:

[blackbird]

hi nin and everybody,

this is the first i've been back in many months. nin, i just wanted to wish you and your husband best of luck, and also wanted to pass on to you and everyone else that i still highly recommend the ClearMind formula made by Ameriden... for me it is much nicer and smoother than the straight RR, which can make me too drowsy/"loopey". i think i wrote more extensively about it in one of my last posts (see above). i imagine, too that the ClearMind would help balance the overstimulating (caffeine-like) effect straight RR can have during the first few days of use. the ClearMind has two other really cool ingrediants that further balance neurotransmitters, so it's sort of balancing the RR which by itself can be a bit unpredictable/a roller coaster. the ClearMind, for me anyway, is a much more smooth and balanced effect than straight RR. it's really sort of perfect, just the right hit. so nice! but that is me, i know everyone is different. i did share some of the ClearMind with a friend who is a very big tall guy (i am a petite woman), and it was plenty strong for him. he was already nuts over the straight RR but when he tried the ClearMind he had to admit it was superior, according to his experience.

i am no longer taking it everyday, i am relying on meditation and exercise as my daily maintanence for mood swings, depression... but it was a great thing to have found when i was "really going through it" last year-- a great discovery that came of that time, and i still like to have it on hand. i usually keep a handful of ClearMind in my handbag for emergencies (it came in really handy when i recently felt obliged to have an extended out-of-town visit with a very difficult family member). i also like to take it when i come off a very long and frazzling shift at my job (about once a week), it is great for rest and recuperation, very restorative. i think it is like giving your brain something very nourishing so it can replenish itself, that is how it feels to me. that is also RR's reputation in Russia, very restorative to mind and body, they use it like a health tonic/make tea with it.

i don't know for sure about coming off the sjw gradually. i definitely recommend that your husband stops taking the sjw though, before taking the RR. i tried combining sjw and RR in the beginning, when i was newer to these alternative remedies and less informed, and it was bad, very bad!! i would not recommend it at all! the good news is, the RR kicks in right away, no real "wait time" though some say you can't really judge the good it's doing until a couple weeks of use (in other words, it starts out good but gets even better). i hope you can order from Ameriden over there in the UK, you could go to their website and i bet they have info about that!!

by the way, i have found that one ClearMind/day is usually plenty, though they say you can take two-- one in the morning and one at around lunch time. i find that one dose, taken any old time that i feel like taking it, is just right. two, spaced through the day, can be ok if you are having a serious emergency/meltdown/major stress-- two is very tranquilizing/sedating and can make you a little wooly-minded, which is not a bad thing once in a while but maybe not the best thing if you need you mind and senses to be sharp and alert for work or other activities or just being. one is much better for being able to function optimally. but once in awhile, if you are having a major crisis and have the time and space to just chill that day, two might be what you need. the RR, much like the sjw, seems to have that "more is not better", or "less is more", thing going on. of course this is just my subjective experience, you all will experiment and find out what suits you.

anyhow, best of luck to you and everyone else out there!:flower2:

love,
blackbird

[shy1]

Good to hear from you again:dance: . Better yet, glad to hear things are going well. As always, wishing you the best.

al

[artur]

hey blackbird, have you ever tried SAMe?

[kasia]

I just want to thank you for all the info on rhodiola. I think that is what I was missing. I have been taking SJW for two weeks now and feel better however my energy level is still low. I just ordered a bottle of rhodiola and hope this will help. I will also take your advise and reduce caffeine in my diet. Thanks again for all your support.

Kasia:lookaround: