> 900 mg?

[krankers]

Howdy all! Newby here. I dutifully scanned all the thread titles in this General section, and I even read a few posts, and I didn't find this topic already covered, so I'll introduce it. Please forgive me if I was too lazy and it really exists somewhere. :wobblyeyes:

I have a tendency to run off at the finger :silly:, so I'll try to keep this succinct. I've been taking 900 mg sjw for almost 2 months now. At first, as did all the "real" antidepressants I tried, it made me feel lighter, both from a heaviness and from a darkness standpoint—I lost the chain mail suit on my body and the dark clouds in my mind. That's really the only drug-induced effect I've ever seen on my depression per se, actually... so far, so good. I think I ended up feeling a little better—more cheerful (relatively speaking, of course :wink:)—not directly from the sjw, but rather as a result of feeling lighter. But all of a sudden, about a month in, events and thoughts conspired against me and the lightness no longer made me feel very good. When I told my therapist this, he—totally ignorant of all things sjw—suggested upping the dose. Now I've done my reading and I know I'm taking the standard high dose already, but I did find mention in one book from England (not laying blame, just explaining the info came from outside the more rigid US) of taking up to 1800 mg.

Personally, I think my thoughts just did me in, not to mention the fact that nobody's mind feels the same every day, and a change of dosage isn't going to change my mind (pardon the pun).:p

Bottom line, my question is: has anyone out there taken more than 900 mg for any length of time? How did it go?

[pixybell]

Hiya krankers,

Firstly hello and hope you find the site as useful as the rest of us!.

I have just had a little look in the archives after reading your thread and it has some intresting material in there for you to research about your dosage. There is a thread from another sjw user using similar amounts and is asking the same question as yourself, is it safe to do this.

A few members replied if you go and take a look in the archive section it will give you the information you need, it talks about a guy named Peter Mcwilliams who has done studies on using 1800mg of sjw for depression. I hope you find the information useful.

Best wishes pixy :freak4:

[sneak]

Hey krankers,

Quite a number of studies into moderate to severe depression in the last three or four years have utilised an 1800mg daily dose, with equivalent benefits to the leading SSRI antidepressants such as Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil. No significant side-effect were observed in the groups taking St John's Wort.

If you feel the effects of the St John's Wort are not adequate, increase the dose by 300-900mg per day.

Just make sure you're using a research-grade extract such as Perika or Kira.

Hope that helps,

Sneak :smile:

[Kelly]

Quite a number of studies into moderate to severe depression in the last three or four years have utilised an 1800mg daily dose, with equivalent benefits to the leading SSRI antidepressants such as Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil. No significant side-effect were observed in the groups taking St John's Wort.

Can you provide some references for this? The last study I read that compared SJW to Paxil used the standard 900mg at 0.3% dose, and found it to be just as effective. Link in the sticky thread entitled, "links to scientific studies"

Kelly

[sneak]

Hi Kelly,

This is the recent study I think you're referring to in the BMJ:

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap>5: </TD><TD width="100%">Szegedi A, Kohnen R, Dienel A, Kieser M. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15708844&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum)</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>Related Articles, (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=15708844)<SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!--var Menu15708844 = [ ["UseLocalConfig","jsmenu3Config","",""], ["Compound via MeSH","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pccompound_mesh&from_uid=15708844'","",""], ["Substance via MeSH","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pcsubstance_mesh&from_uid=15708844'","",""], ["Cited Articles","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed_refs&from_uid=15708844'","",""], ["Free in PMC","window.top.location='http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=15708844'","",""], ["Cited in PMC","window.top.location='http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/tocrender.fcgi?action=cited&tool=pubmed&pubmedid=15708844'","",""], ["Books","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=15708844&dopt=Books'","",""], ["LinkOut","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=15708844&dopt=ExternalLink'","",""]]//--></SCRIPT> Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu15708844);) </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/corehtml/query/PubMed/gifs/free_in_pmc.gif (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15708844&itool=iconpmc&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum)</TD><TD colSpan=2>Acute treatment of moderate to severe depression with hypericum extract WS 5570 (St John's wort): randomised controlled double blind non-inferiority trial versus paroxetine.
BMJ. 2005 Mar 5;330(7490):503. Epub 2005 Feb 11. Erratum in: BMJ. 2005 Apr 2;330(7494):759. dosage error in text.
PMID: 15708844 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLIN


An initial dose of 900mg of the Schwabe extract was used, which was then increased to 1800mg/day in non-responders. Both doses were shown to be as effective as paroxetine in the treatment of moderate to severe depression, with far fewer side-effects than that drug.

Also, another study...

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap>1: </TD><TD width="100%">Vorbach EU, Arnoldt KH, Hubner WD. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9342765&query_hl=14&itool=pubmed_docsum)</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>Related Articles, (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=9342765)<SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!--var PopUpMenu2_LocalConfig_jsmenu3Config = [ ["ShowCloseIcon","yes"], ["Help","window.open('/entrez/query/static/popup.html','Links_Help','resizable=no,scrollbars= yes,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status=n o,menubar=no,copyhistory=no,alwaysRaised=no,depend =no,width=400,height=500');"], ["TitleText"," Links "]]var jsmenu3Config = [ ["UseLocalConfig","jsmenu3Config","",""]]//--></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!--var Menu9342765 = [ ["UseLocalConfig","jsmenu3Config","",""], ["Compound via MeSH","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pccompound_mesh&from_uid=9342765'","",""], ["Substance via MeSH","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pcsubstance_mesh&from_uid=9342765'","",""], ["Cited in PMC","window.top.location='http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/tocrender.fcgi?action=cited&tool=pubmed&pubmedid=9342765'","",""], ["Books","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=9342765&dopt=Books'","",""], ["LinkOut","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=9342765&dopt=ExternalLink'","",""]]//--></SCRIPT> Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu9342765);) </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/corehtml/query/PubMed/gifs/abstract_d.gif (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9342765&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=14&itool=pubmed_docsum)</TD><TD colSpan=2>Efficacy and tolerability of St. John's wort extract LI 160 versus imipramine in patients with severe depressive episodes according to ICD-10.
Pharmacopsychiatry. 1997 Sep;30 Suppl 2:81-5.
PMID: 9342765 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

....compared the use LI 160 (Kira) in severely depressed patients at a dose of 1800mg/day. In the study, it was compared to the tricyclic imipramine, and performed very well.


One of the major problems facing researchers wanting to enrol patients suffering from moderate to severe major depression in trials using SJW relates to ethical considerations. Patients in this population are often potentially suicidal, and to withhold established pharmaceutical treatments raises ethical and legal concerns. Fortunately, researchers and doctors in Germany view SJW as an established and proven therapy anyway, and are more likely to wish to explore its applications in the higher dosage range.

I expect a number of studies will be published in the next 5 years further validating SJW as at least as effective as standard pharmacotherapies in the treatment of moderate to severe major depression, most likely at a dosage of between 1200-1800mg/day.

Sneak

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[krankers]

Forgive me for appearing so rude, but I'll wager you all understand—I haven't felt like talking to anyone or even expending any energy, so this is the first time I've so much as gone online, let alone read email, since last I wrote. I probably wouldn't have done it today either, but I'm not sure how many months leeway I get before my ISP dumps my email (I think it's 4), so I thought I'd better be safe and check email at least.

Thanks so much for your replies. I looked through the Archive and read anything whose title related to increased dosage. I mostly found a few people who said they tried such dosages, and either it helped or I couldn't discern the outcome... at least no one had adverse effects. I never came across the one mentioning McWilliams. Nevertheless, Sneak's mention of researchers trying 1800 and getting positive results is good enough for me. I'm not really a fraidy cat—I would have upped the dose whether I knew it worked for others or not—it was really more of a financial concern: I didn't want to spend the extra bucks if a higher dose only increases the potential for bad rather than good effects.

I'll probably try more in the near future. For now though, I'm in a phase of being not that interested in eating and not that hungry, and since I've slipped into anorexia over the past year (I'm already a long-time bulimic), I'm eager to ride the semi-starvation train as long as I can. I don't know if sjw has anything to do with this state—I have my doubts—but last time I was in this state, I had just stopped taking Effexor, and I suspect the drug did have something to do with the state. Hence, JIC, I'm holding off on changing any drugs until this phase passes. :eyemouth:

BTW, I, too, am petite (I realize that's a consideration, and I read that in some posts): 4' 10", and these days I'm hovering around 80 lbs; I really hope to get into the 70s. Yes, I know how sick that is, but that's a matter for another website. :disturbed:

P.S. Last time I was here, I read a great paragraph about an sjw manufacturer—I think and hope it was Solaray—but now I can't find it. I even tried Search. Does anyone know where it is? It discussed how this company is committed to quality production. I've been using Perika or Kira—whichever's on sale or costs less—but the first brand I tried was Solaray Guaranteed Potency. It seemed OK and per capsule, it's cheaper than the other two, so I wanted to reread that paragraph and see if I felt safe going back to Solaray.