Four weeks, no real improvement

[BelleKelle]

I was so hoping that by this time, I'd be making a thread shouting about how great SJW is, but not so. Instead, I'm just hoping that someone's got suggestions for me.

I started out four weeks ago (tomorrow) with a store brand SJW. After I realized that the same store brand's multivitamins' list of percentages of RDA was for two tablets, I started to doubt the efficacy of their SJW. I switched to Whole Foods brand, which is probably about the same thing, a crushed herb mixture with hypericum extract. After two weeks and no improvement, I switched to Perika (about two weeks ago).

I was really pleased last week when it seemed like I'd found myself under this cloud of depression. That lasted about three days, then poof!, I found myself right back where I was: utterly fatigued, usually a flat, uninterested mood, kind of restless and still very irritable. It's the irritability and fatigue that are getting to me more than anything. I'm inwardly snapping at the smallest things and I feel like I could probably crawl into bed and sleep till May. I've been going to bed earlier and earlier, but still find I can't get up in the morning.

I started taking some rhodiola last week, but stopped that as of today because I didn't notice anything different and something was really upsetting my stomach. I took as much as 500 mgs of that (first the New Chapter Force, then Nature's Way) and didn't feel anything different--nothing, not even a caffeine-like feeling. (I'm almost tempted to take it at night just to see if will even keep me awake.)

I don't know if I ought to just keep this with the same brand, different brand, to increase or decrease dosage, or just keep going like I am. Seems like keeping it steady is the best idea, but I'm so desperate to feel something like I felt last week that I guess the idea of changing something is very appealing.

I'm also wondering if I messed things up by switching brands so much in just two weeks. Did I maybe just put myself back at the starting point when I switched to Perika, since it's a different sort of extract? If so, that would mean that I'm really at about the two-week mark. That's not such a bad thing, as I'd be able to at least keep in mind that within about two weeks, I ought to be feeling more like myself. Does anyone know if switching like that (different types of SJW) would do that, kind of putting me back at the beginning? d

Side effects have not been a problem. I've had a lot of vivid dreams, but no headaches, no photosensitivity. I've even continued using the tanning salon with no burns, no pink, even under the strongest lights. It almost seems like I wish I would burn, just to prove it to me that there is something going on, anything that I could point to, aside from some bizarre and vivid dreams, to convince me that this stuff is in my system.

One thing that has been very different with this episode of depression is the lack of anxiety. I have not touched my rx for clonazepam in ages. It seems like I'm way too exhausted to feel any anxiety, but even that sounds strange coming from me, considering that anxiety has been an almost constant state for me for many years. I'm wondering if perhaps all the regular aerobic exercise has affected me like that. If so, that's a good thing, and I'm glad I'm not feeling anxious and that I'm not waking up convinced I'm dying :freak4: but this fatigue is no more fun than anxiety. I can't get anything done. All I want to do is sleep.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears. Right now, I feel as bad as I have since it first dawned on me that I was once again in a depressive funk back in early-mid February.

[quacker]

Oh my BelleKelle,

I am sincerely upset to hear it is not working out for you, and the depression is still occurring for you. I remember our last discussion left me feeling optimistic for you and I.

I do not have any suggestions; I am in this same game, still new to this. However, coincidentally, I am feeling somewhat like you are. I had a "peak" about two weeks ago: every day seemed wonderful and I just *knew* the SJW was kicking in. Either that or hell was freezing over, but probably the former than the latter. Then, it went away in just a day or two. Now, I have my moments where I feel great, so I can't say the SJW is not working. However, like you, depression has the better hold of me right now. I don't mean to hijack your thread and talk about myself; instead, I am hoping that my similiar experience provides you some sense of comfort in knowing you are not alone.

Keep in mind of the subtle issues with SJW. One of them is tyramine and its interaction with SJW. Did you eat a lot pepperoni, for example, lately? The mix could cause hypertension and in turn cause you the fatigue you described. I do not know if hypertension is permanent or temporary, so I can't say the solution would be to lay off the pepperoni. But consider it, if you have not already (I am almost as new as you are to this, so I don't want to be blind leading the blind ;)).

Good luck to you, and keep posting your progress and thoughts
-quacker

[BelleKelle]

Hey Quacker,

You're not highjacking my thread! I created it and hoped for some replies. I'm glad to hear from you.

I'm happy to tell you that I gave up SJW this week completely. I could not take the fatigue any longer. I felt like I was a hibernating bear or something. I [desperately] started taking SAMe over the weekend, and let me tell you, this stuff works fast.

I started on Saturday, and I do believe that by Monday, I was feeling good effects from it. I'm just a bit hesitant to create a post to that effect in case it fizzles out. I'm on day three of feeling some relief. I'm also not up to the full dose yet (1600 mgs) just in case something rouses me from my torpor and causes anxiety. I took just one 200 mg tablet on Saturday, and then Sun, Mon and yesterday, four tablets (800 mgs). Today I took six, which would be 1200 mgs.

I hope by this weekend to get myself up to the full dose and see how things go. Supposely, that's how this stuff works. You take the big guns dose for a while, then reduce to a maintenance dose. Keeping my fingers crossed.

I don't believe I ate much pepperoni at all while on the SJW, but that is good information to have. I check my bp fairly regularly at the drug store and mine's always good. It goes from good to great :rosiecheeks: I'm very fortunate with bp.

Have you got a plan in mind if you decide that the SJW is not going to do it for you? Any ideas?

[quacker]

Hey BelleKelle,

Glad to hear SAM-e is providing you a better time. Your last post was over a week ago; how is it going now? Any side effects? That stuff is expensive, at least around here, so I am considering it but want to get some insight before I invest in it. Are you getting SAM-e from the store or online?

As for my backup plan, I have none :( I suppose I could consider other herbs or supplements, such as SAM-e, but I think my depression is caused by my life and events rather than a chemical imbalance, so perhaps that is why the SJW is not working for me. The SJW hits my brain, goes to do its thing, but realises there's nothing wrong chemically. It can't change my thoughts, so it gives up. But, what do I know afterall? I am not a doctor. My only backup plan is trust and hope that God will relieve me of my suffering soon enough and show me all the dissapointments and bad things in my life occurred so I would still have the chance to receive something amazing one day. I am working my butt off to gain what I want in life, but it's not working. So all I have left is trust that God is building me up for a big payoff, and that one day I will realise it is good nothing worked out because if this stuff did, the good stuff would never have come. That trust, and perhaps some SAM-e or something else is my only backup plan :)

Let me know how you are doing now. Oh, and how are your flowers coming along? I remember a while back you mentioned you were shopping for some nice floral designs or layouts.

Best regards,
-quacker

[BelleKelle]

Hi there Quacker,

What a nice post. Thank you :smile:

Well, the last two days have been pretty bad. I've been keeping a journal about how much sam-e I take, and it seems that when I was at about 800 mgs, I got better results. It's only been a week and a half, however, so I am willing to wait a while. If things don't improve tomorrow, I might drop the dose. It seems "wrong" from what I've read, but that's what I was taking when I had the good effects.

Don't know if you know who Hyla Cass is, but her instructions are to go up to 1600 mgs only if necessary. So maybe I just overdid it. Not sure.

Very perplexing indeed.

Where am I getting it? I bought the first box of 20 200 mgs tablets at a local store for $16. Then, I ordered from iherb at a significant discount. I think it was $20, including shipping, for 60 tablets of 200 mgs.

Oh, this reminds me. I started with Source Naturals, but when I realized that the iherb shipment was not going to be here on time, I bought Jarrow Formulas locally. It was while I was taking Jarrow that the good results started. So my results might be related to the brand. I read customer reviews on iherbs, and apparently Jarrow is one of the brands tested by Consumer Labs and found to contain exactly the amount indicated on the box. I know that this is also true of Nature Made (but iherb doesn't sell that brand, so I won't buy it if I don't have to--too expensive in stores). The other brand that I was taking, and am taking again right now, is Source Naturals. I have never heard anything but good things about them, but it has been since I've been on their products that my mood went back down. Hmmm. Glad you asked, because it made me think of this.

I buy a lot of my products from iherb. I get great service and their prices are very good. They have several brands of sam-e, including Jarrow, Source Naturals and one called Doctor's Best that has pages and pages of good reviews on it. I had considered ordering that brand today, when I reordered, but went with Jarrow (a little higher in price) because of my experience with that brand. If it's brand related, maybe I will soon know that.


How is my gardening going? Well, I did plant some of the flowers, but the rest are still in pots, kind of withering away. I got lazy, I guess. I wasn't able to find exactly what I had mind that day, but we still had a good time. That was when the Perika gave me a couple of days of relief. Seems I can't get more than a few days' relief, and then my mood goes back down. So frustrating!

Good for you that you have such deep spiritual beliefs. Did you know that people with strong beliefs have less incidence of depression and recover more quickly from adverse events and the stress they cause? So, keep that up. It will only help you.

If you are interested in knowing more about sam-e, there's a long thread on it in that section here. I found some good information there, as well looking around online. It seems that sam-e has an even better track record for treating depression than does SJW.

It also has the added benefits of helping any joint pain you may have that is related to arthritis, and it apparently helps your liver function better. Therefore, even if I abandon it for treating depression, I'll still take a very small dosage every day for those reasons. I can tell you that my knee and ankles are not bothering me as much as they had been before. I had started running and old, old injuries flared up that made it impossible for me to run (leaving me the elliptical machine, which I detest). My ankles and my knees feel pretty good right now!

If you try sam-e, I would very much like to know how it goes for you. Oh--if you do take it, you need to make sure you are supplementing with b vitamins.

Take care. I hope things soon improve for you. And thank you for asking about me.

edited to add: okay, just checked my date book, where I make entries about all this, and here's what it says. Day 2= 800 mgs, "odd sense of feeling better." Day three= 800 mgs "definite sense of feeling better." So, maybe it is only dose-related and the brand has nothing to do with it. At this time, I was still on teh Source Naturals that I'd bought locally.

I recommend keeping a journal like this, esp if you are changing dosages, brans, etc. That might be true esp with sam-e because it appears to get into the system much more quickly.