My Experience With 5-HTP

[analea21]

So, I wanted to give an overview of my experience. I started out at 100 mg and it was too much. The first week I was very anxious and I didn't have anxiety like that the whole summer. It felt a lot like going on an antidepressant. It made me feel agitated.

My second week I went down to 25mg and after 3 days, I went to 50mg. I stayed at 50mg for a couple of weeks and slowly got up to 200mg.

I usually take it in the morning and the afternoon. I felt really sensitive to any change in this schedule at first. However, now I feel I can take it anytime.

I am in Graduate School and usually I feel really anxious under stress. I always seem to go on antidepressants around October because I'm always starting school, a new job (I've moved quite a bit). The 5-HTP makes me feel calm. I don't have much anxiety on 200mg (only if something stressful comes up). My depression is not bad at all. It feels nice to be able to cry sometimes. I think antidepressants made me feel numb.

For those thinking about 5-HTP or some other natural antidepressant, if your depression is not extreme, you really should try it. The side effects of antidepressants are depressing themselves. I am 28 and I want to have children someday, I don't want to be overweight and I want to enjoy sex with my husband.

This summer, it had been 4 years off and on antidepressants. I came to a point where I decided I would do everything I could to be healthy. I went on Weight Watchers, I exercised 3 or more times a week, I took vitamins, fish oil, calcium, etc. I got into therapy and made a decision to care for myself. So, even though 5-HTP has helped me so much, I don't know what my experience would have been like if I did not start taking care of my health.

Along with 5-HTP, I have found that it is important to do everything in your strength to get better. It is a decision and sometimes many of us have a hard time saying to ourselves that we are worth the time and effort. This whole process toward becoming healthy began with a letter to myself of how I needed to atleast try my best to do everything that people say would help a depressed person. I even got a bird! Since they say that having an animal can help.

It's a battle, but the fight is worth it.

[webcat63]

So you take 200mg 5-Htp/day. Does that have any side-effects at your libido/sexlife? Do you feel any drowsiness or nausea? How about sleep?

[orlando]

It's a battle, but the fight is worth it.

Congratulations on everything! I'm also walking the same road and have started to take care of myself by doing much of everything you mention. Also thanks for sharing your experience with 5-htp. I find it (L-tryptophan) very useful too. Good luck on your journey!

[analea21]

I sleep a bit deeper with 5HTP (200mg per day) and feel energized throughout the day. However, in the first couple of weaks I did feel drowsy. Now I feel normal. My libido is normal and I never exeperienced anything having to do with an upset stomach. I went up on it gradually and I also started out by using enteric coated pills. Now I use capsules and I feel great. My only concern is that some say the effect of 5HTP wears off after 2-3 months. I haven't seen signs of this yet.

[analea21]

Well, I posted a good report, but soon after this report, the effects began to wear off after 2 months of use (200mg). I first went up to 250mg, but it didn't help. So, now I am going to cycle with Rhodiola Rosea.

I knew 5HTP was wearing off because I felt anxiety again. I really felt like I was going to break down last Friday, but talked myself out of going there. I am going to try RR for 4-6 weeks and then go back on 5HTP.

I have a question, though. How do you cycle other herbs. I didn't stop 5htp cold turkey. I am still on 100 5htp and started RR at 250mg. I'm wondering how others do this.

[orlando]

Some people find that when L-Tryptophan (5-htp) poops out that can be taken care of by adding L-tyrosine into the mix. Not together that is; Tyrosine in the morning and Tryptohan in the night. Try it and see if that helps with the poop up.

But start really low with tyrosine since it can worsen anxiety!

[analea21]

Hi Orlando,
Thanks for the info.

Does L-tryptophan poop out? Does it work better for anxiety than 5htp does?


Thanks,
A

[orlando]

Hi Orlando,
Thanks for the info.
Does L-tryptophan poop out? Does it work better for anxiety than 5htp does?
Thanks,
A

It depends on the person. I for one can't handle 5-htp (it just doesn't work) and I find L-tryptophan much better. Some don't notice any difference at all. In the long term they probably both poop out if over-used (without breaks in-between)

There was some research done regarding this (don't remember where right now) and they found that adding L-tyrosine to the mix works well, that is that it reverses the poop out. Something to do with the dopamine. Anyway, these two amino acids (tryptophan and tyrosine) compete with each other and therefore should be taken apart (a few hours I guess) and on empty stomach.

But as said, go slow since tyrosine can make anxiety worse for some.

[RDragon]

Yeah tyrosine needs to be added when 5-htp poops out because that means the levels of your dopamine and nonrepinephrine have decreased; this happens because as your serotonin levels rise and stay high it can lower the other stimulating neurochemicals in your brain.

[orlando]

analea21, Let us know how you experiment with tyrosine will go, okay? I'm very interested to hear if this will work for you.

[Sim]

I am glad you feel better Analea and I have had similar experience, having stopped looking for a one stop pill that would make me feel better, I just started taking good overall care of general health, diet excersise, sensible routines and nutrition and stuff and I just feel better and better every day, I really feel happy these days, every day and I do not take any medication natural or otherwise, just simply eat 3 square meals regular, and just look after myself.

I now sleep aboslutely fine every night, dont get panic attacks any longer and just, I gues what is best is that I just feel happy and content inside these days. My circumstances are same, there is no new people or new things other than diet and routines, but I just feel ok with everything.

And I just want to let anyone know who is really depressed or anxious, its so horrible and its like there is no help, but at least for me and I am not unusual in anyway, I am free of that awful state and I hope that gives others hope, because i thought there was none and i that i was just me and how i was, but i wasnt at all and I also put the fact that I got out of that down entirely to better diet exercise and very general stuff that I wasnt talkking care of myself properly.

Now I do and its at least worth a try for anyone, because it really feels good now and after the nightmare of being told i needed this and that medication that I swore blind made me feel worse and worse, feeling ok and being able to sleep etc, is just like wonderful, I appreciate it everyday, remembering how awful i was to be depressed and anxious.

[renegademaster]

Hi, I was surfing the net, trying to collect more information about user experiences on 5htp.

first off, i don't suffer from heavy chronic depression. let me clear my situation, which i will eventually relate to yours.

my situation is mild ADHD, and today i mostly suffer from using amphetamines in the process, which i find somehow indirectly similar to patients of severe depression suffering further from SRRI's.

although different, and though they are used for different treatments, the way they work are all same.

ADHD is closely related with disorder or low levels of dopamine whereas depression is more related with serotonin. People suffering from ADHD also suffer some level of depression as well, both because of dopamine deficiency and also because of screwed up balance of those neurotransmitters altogether..

When i saw a psychiatrist about this, she gave me what a lot of other college students were getting at the time (i was in college back then, just about to graduate), a prescription called adderall, which is manufactured from 100% amphetamines. They way the drug makes one feel is probably comparable to the way anti depressants make a patient of depression feel in the beginning.. Great! You feel energized, focused, have more attention and drive for anything and everything, happy, incredibly positive assertive, taking charge, have the ability to improvise in any type of situation, unbelievable levels of confidence and very increased self esteem. You feel invincible, and in fact, you are able to go for days and nights without feeling any tiredness or immediate need to sleep, and don't even get hungry. One's performance levels in any type of work doubles and triples in no time with almost ease.. One turns into a machine..

However, it doesn't stay that way for very long, as one starts building tolerance in time, and needs to increase dose.

The way amphetamines work are similar to SRRI's in the way that while they increase the levels of neurotransmitters they stimulate, they also inhibit the reuptake of the neurotransmitters, by blocking the prospective receptors, keeping them in the system longer and in concentrated amounts, therefore creating an artificial state of wellbeing..This causes the neurons and the receptors to desensitisize towards that amount of that stimulant in time, requiring more to be able to be sensitive to it, meaning you have gained tolerance and you have to increase dose or get something better to be able to continue the same effects.. Furthermore, your neurotransmitters get depleted so much while the drug does its work that it can not produce same levels of neurotransmitters and maintain the same cycles anymore, which results in withdrawals when you stop taking the drug, which leads to ADDICTION.

Withdrawals for amphetamines are severe! And I believe it's very similar with antidepressants.. There's a huge down. Confusion. Total lack of motivation and stimulation.. Extreme fatigue, and all the positive feelings I had just mentioned above are completely reversed. So one goes back to the doctor (the licensed drug dealer) and gets some more to feel good again..

The more one continues in this cycle, the more potential there is to increase dose in time. Some people resist and stay in control. However I've seem people using methods similar to ones used for street drugs to intake suicidal amounts of amphetamines to get more effects in quicker time... Similar to how methamphetamine addicts live, which are suffering from same situation, but them without the prescription..

The longer you take and the higher doses you begin to take, the more you synthetically manipulate your central nervous system by messing up not only the way your neurotransmitters are produced but the entire recycling process, since the drugs also mess with the receptors and cells and nerves..

SRRI's work pretty much the same way with serotonin, so when i read they get more messed up and even suicidal in time, i can only imagine how they really could be feeling that way.

I've never really overdosed and kept control of my usage to work days and to recommended dose mostly, which gave me the opportunity to experience a many downs on the weekends.. And I also have seen so many people suffer from increased amounts of addiction, impossible to function, impossible to even go to bathroom in the morning without taking their drug in 200-300 mgs, and taking more through out the day.. (one only starts the treatment with 10-30 mg a day!)


Anyway, I don't want to bore anyone, so let me get to the point.

I recently decided to stop taking such medications, and if i need any supplemental help, i had decided that i should be able to find another method. or suffer a little and get out of that cycle.. nevertheless, i decided i no longer wanted to depend on such a drug..

it's not easy. I cut it cold turkey, and couldn't function much for a while. I couldn't work, i couldn't participate in any social functions, hell i couldn't even get out of the bed for about 10 days other than excessive eating..

it's been a while now and things are recovering fast.

now, lately, i've been researching natural supplements and herbs to substitute the once medical help from natural resources without unpleasant consequences and side effects.

I've run across L-tyrosine, which is claimed to help increase dopamine levels the same way 5 htp does with serotonin, as tyrosine is the precursor of dopamine. i've read a few very satisfied reviews from some people suffering from previous drug use and decided to give it a shot. I've also read such reviews recommending the usage in combination with 5 htp, claiming a great improvement.

Up until this, I've been taking a lot of vitamin B complex ad E, along with other vitains and anti oxidants, and gingko biloba..

I've realized that when such supplements are taken with an overall complete or near complete nutrition, and complemented with daily work out (which started very slow for me as it took some time to recover from lack of enery and motivation), one eventually starts feeling much better again, because there is no longer a doctor, and there is no longer an expense to be made to that doctor, and no more side effects from chemicals that screw up my system (i'm not sure about anti depressants, but amphetamines also have physical effects and consequences, starting with rashes on dried up itchy skin and rapid tooth decay)..

I'm not at 100% yet, i still have time to get there, but it's recivering fast now with my efforts to achieve an overall healthy regimen instead of a specific dopamine issue..

The reason I wrote you all of that is this: while i was reading about 5 htp and hopping from site to site, i came across this site and while reading the forum, i saw a bunch of people who were trying to improve their situations like i was trying.. I've also noticed a posting regarding 5 htp losing its effect in time and arguing whether to increase the dose or try new things, which struck a familiar note we all know, a feeling of dependency to a substance or another.. i suggest be careful..

in response to a question here: i havent tried 5 htp yet, i just bought it and will start tomorrow. but i have started tyrosine. tyrosine also has some positive mood elevation, and it also gives energy, upping the mood. (dopamine). it could help since improved levels of dopamine could perhaps balance out better with improved levels of serotonin.. however i'm not a doctor, so i can't say anything further before trying them. i also suggest L-glutamine on the side as a supplement, a good vitamin B complex, magnesium and zinc, along with Vitamin C. You need these to appropriately absorbe the amino acids into the system, as well as help synthesize them into the neurotransmitters and hormines they become. Vitamin B (1, 6 and 12) also functions with nervous system and helps mental health.

If you are taking Tyrosine you have to take it with VITAMIN B-6 for tyrosine to be absorbed and synthesized..

I hope all this works out for you. And i hope i didn't bore anyone to death. good luck.

[DreamGirl]

Thank you for sharing all that! I found it very interesting, indeed. My son (12 yo) takes a high dose of Concerta for his adhd, and I'd love to find a natural alternative.

Please keep us posted on your progress and research findings. We're all in this together!

[analea21]

Just wanted to let ya'll know where I'm at with 5htp now. I have not added L-tyrosine yet. This past week I started SJW (Kira) hearing that Kira does not aggravate anxiety as much as the other brands. So, I have reduced 5htp for 200mg to 100mg, while adding 100mg of SJW. I have never taken SJW before mainly because anxiety is an issue with my depression. I am starting on a low dose of SJW, and may have to reduce it to 50mg so my body can adjust.

If this doesn't work for me, I'm going to add the L-tyrosine. I really don't want to rely on 5htp when it poops out every 2 months. RR made me more anxious and for one month (October) I was on nothing.

I really hope SJW works because it is long term. However, it's been about 4-5 days and I feel quite moody. Hmmm, I guess I have to wait and see what happens.

[Slate]

This may be a little off topic but let me say this, I thought it was quite interesting. This lady on tv weighed 400lb and tried everything to beat her weight problem. Her problem broguht on anxiety and depression. Eventually she started helping other people, online somehow. They didn't specify how, maybe she just gave other people support. Well anyways she is now like 140 lb and she says the reason she lost weight is because she helped other people. It was'nt even her goal to lose weight at that point. She didn't even notice she was losing weight. Were before she wieghed herself every single day. I just wanted to point out how much helping other people helps yourself.

[JasonInDallas]

This may be a little off topic but let me say this, I thought it was quite interesting. This lady on tv weighed 400lb and tried everything to beat her weight problem. Her problem broguht on anxiety and depression. Eventually she started helping other people, online somehow. They didn't specify how, maybe she just gave other people support. Well anyways she is now like 140 lb and she says the reason she lost weight is because she helped other people. It was'nt even her goal to lose weight at that point. She didn't even notice she was losing weight. Were before she wieghed herself every single day. I just wanted to point out how much helping other people helps yourself.

This is exactly how 12 step programs such as AA work where nothing else is successful.

[mandapanda]

I am liking it so far, but found that I have had to tinker with it.
I recently went off of effexor..which was an absolute nightmare of an antidpressant.
I have been on many of them over the years, on and off..mainly to help with anxiety, bulimia, and depression.
I am done with them!
No more SSRI's for moi!
I am liking this 5-htp so far.
I found, though, that if I take too much of it right before bed..like over 50mg, I get anxious.
So, I have been doing 50 mg in the afternoon and 50 at night..a bit before bed. This seems to be helping much more.
I was also experimenting with doing like 400 mg SAM-e in the morning, which I started before 5-htp, but it made me too wired..
I also have ADHD..which I never believed was a real condition, but it soo is! Concerta at 54 mg is helping me in the morning...so don't want to use anything else that could add to anxiety.
I am wondering if the 5-htp is enough?
I would love to try to add SJW, but am worried about anxiety and serotonin overload.
So, maybeI just see how 5-htp does for me for a while..and maybe do some rhodiola in the morning too..Seems to work great for my friends.

Anyhow, this is a great website! I am so glad I found it.
There is a lot of confusing info on the net about this stuff and one can go nutty trying to find clarity and answers.
Your experiences here are so helpful.
Anyhow..I am thinking that that one Dr may be right about not getting the 5-htp over 100mg a day?
At first I went too high with it and it made me jump out of my skin.

Thanks so much, and sorry soooo long!

Amanda : )

[analea21]

Hi Amanda,
Welcome to the forum. I started taking herbal supplements a year ago and this forum was so helpful. I am starting 5htp again and I have been on SJW for 9 months. I first took 5htp because I knew it helped with anxiety. It worked for 2 months, and then I had to reduce the dosage for a month before I could use it again. I decided to do SJW in December. I have taken 600mg because 900mg made me anxious. This is what I have found with both: SJW helps with depression, and 5htp helps with anxiety.

If you plan on combining 5htp with SJW, I would wait to see how 5htp affects you. If you find that 5htp doesn't fully help with depression, maybe adding SJW would be good. However, if you start these two together, you won't know how they affect you taken individually.

[analea21]

So I've been on 5htp at 50mg for about two weeks now. I feel so great. Right now I'm taking 600mg of SJW as well. The SJW did not help with anxiety, so I stayed at 600mg. I am amazed at how different I feel when I get serotonin in my system. It feels like the lights go on, and I can see life in a whole different way. I have dreams when I sleep at night again, and I sleep better. I don't ever want to go back to being depressed. It's been five years since the depression first popped up its head, and I am tired of simply living life in such a way.

[analea21]

I thought I would give an update. The 5htp at 50mg seemed to be too much when I am taking SJW at 600mg. So, toward the end of the month of August (the post below), I started getting anxious. I took a break for a couple weeks, and now I am taking 25mg of 5htp everyday. I am feeling much better after a week, but it took a while to get past some side-effects of going back on the 5htp.

What frustrates me is how it has not been a smooth ride coming on and off of 5htp after a break for a week. Since the 5htp is working right now, I am going to stick with it for another month and see how I feel toward the end. The fall is rough for me, since I'm usually starting something new. Hopefully it won't be that rough now that I've been going the herbal route for a year now. Last year, I was only taking 5htp and I really struggled when the effects wore off after a couple of months. The SJW seems to lasts longer before a tolerance is developed.

[Spunt]

Thanks for posting your experiences. I'm trying a similar route and am concerned about 5 htp and sjw maxxing out too. So far I've been on SJW for almost 3 weeks, 600 mg a day of Kira, and it seems to work best when I take 50mg 5 HTP every other day. I was just using the 5 HTP alone to begin with but the effects were so temporary that I would have had to take 50mg 4 times a day and I knew that wouldn't last.

I see that RR made you anxious, here's a few other things I have seen listed that help with anxiety. I bought them all and am testing them 1 at a time, along with the SJW, in place of the 5 HTP to see if any could help when I can't take 5 HTP. These are:

Omega 3 Fish Oil
Kava Kava
L Theanine
Inositol

So far I've tried the fish oil and at first I thought it was helping with the anxiety, took 1 geltab in 48 hours, but now that I have had a couple doses in a row I notice a marked increase in my anxiety. Maybe I'm taking to much to fast, 1 geltab at lunch and 1 with dinner. From further research I see that some speculate it raises dopamine levels which would explain my situation.

Make sure to get good brands of whatever you try, to avoid looking like I'm selling a given product I won't specifically list what I'm trying except the SJW brand which I see discussed regularly hence I assume its ok to mention it.

If you try any of these please post your experiences. :)

[robertz]

I would add some more things to the anti-anxiety list:

- Calcium + magnesium
- A good multivitamin (specially B and C vitamins)
- Exercise (this is a must)
- Tyrosine (yes, actually it makes me feel calmed and happy). I have to mention i've not tried it by itself though, i take it in combination with 5-htp.
- GABA. I've not tried this one but i ordered some and i'm going to start taking it soon.

Besides 5-htp of course!

[Nishka27]

Ive been reading your posts and I have mainly anxiety attacks, with Id guess mild depression, and started taking SJW a week and half ago. Just one pill a day, as I really do not want to take effexor (took years ago) So im really interested to hear what else there is, and how you make out with the 5htp and Kava Kava and gaba - and other things you mentioned.. Ive started taking multi vitamins too and have a good diet/exercise. Im not well educated on what these other items are - so i really look forward to hearing how you make out.. (andrealea /Robertz..and the other person responding on this thread.. can remember the name now.. ) pls keep posting!! can you tell me exactly what 5htp and perhap kava kava did for you exaclty..is it more like take a natural supplement for "relaxation" like ativan??

[robertz]

Ive been reading your posts and I have mainly anxiety attacks, with Id guess mild depression, and started taking SJW a week and half ago. Just one pill a day, as I really do not want to take effexor (took years ago) So im really interested to hear what else there is, and how you make out with the 5htp and Kava Kava and gaba - and other things you mentioned.. Ive started taking multi vitamins too and have a good diet/exercise. Im not well educated on what these other items are - so i really look forward to hearing how you make out.. (andrealea /Robertz..and the other person responding on this thread.. can remember the name now.. ) pls keep posting!! can you tell me exactly what 5htp and perhap kava kava did for you exaclty..is it more like take a natural supplement for "relaxation" like ativan??

Hi there Nishka, 5-htp took my depression away in combination with some L-Tyrosine in the morning. It seems this combination is the best, because if you just take 5-htp there is a risk of depleting dopamine and norepinephrine (the two most important neurotransmistters besides serotonine). It's not like taking Ativan (lorazepam) at all. Lorazepam deals with GABA, a neurotransmitter which slows down brain function.

[Nishka27]

so both 5-htp and SJW work as anti depressants. i do not know much about LTyrosine that you mention ill research that today - if you can education more on your experience on taking all of these would be great.. how much/how often.. which one of hte three u taking now? did you experience side effects with 5HTP... are you in canada? i havent this one in the stores yet, Ill take a look! Im only taking one SJW a day, but was thinking about taking two a day ... maybe i should hold off -can you take one of both i wonder

[Nishka27]

Hi there - wanted to check how it was going. what side effects did you have on 5HTP when u started. are you still taking with SJW? and when do you take each? thanks plesae lmk

Tracy



I thought I would give an update. The 5htp at 50mg seemed to be too much when I am taking SJW at 600mg. So, toward the end of the month of August (the post below), I started getting anxious. I took a break for a couple weeks, and now I am taking 25mg of 5htp everyday. I am feeling much better after a week, but it took a while to get past some side-effects of going back on the 5htp.

What frustrates me is how it has not been a smooth ride coming on and off of 5htp after a break for a week. Since the 5htp is working right now, I am going to stick with it for another month and see how I feel toward the end. The fall is rough for me, since I'm usually starting something new. Hopefully it won't be that rough now that I've been going the herbal route for a year now. Last year, I was only taking 5htp and I really struggled when the effects wore off after a couple of months. The SJW seems to lasts longer before a tolerance is developed.

[analea21]

Hi Nishka,
I'm not taking 5htp right now. Right now I'm taking 300mg of Kira and hoping to go back to an anti-depressant. If you want to take both SJW and 5htp, I would start out with one of them first and then add the other one later so you know how each one makes you feel. The 5htp worked when I took 200mg (I was taking it alone without SJW). It helped with anxiety a lot. It took about 2 weeks to really work. There were some side-effects at the beginning, like tiredness. I had to gradually start 5htp. I started with 50mg for a week or two and then increased the dose. After 2 months of use, the effects wore off. I took a month break and went back on. However, it's a bit of a roller coaster to start and stop 5htp.

The SJW worked at 600mg for me. Anything higher made me more anxious. Yet, it helped with anxiety some, and depression more so.

About your question regarding Kava, and other calming herbs. These herbs do not boost serotonin like SJW, RR, Same, and 5htp. Kava and others like it is similar to drinking a potent chamomile tea. I think the leading herb for anxiety is Passion Flower. You can read a lot of this on Dr. Ray Sahelian (sp ?). He provides a lot of info on these herbs.

I have a question, though. How did Effexor work for you? I am actually going to try it mainly because I am having trouble finding something for anxiety. What were the side-effects, and did it help you?

[Nishka27]

may i ask if most people (yourself) are in the u.s? I am in Canada, so it hleps when you are referring to Herbs like KIRA that i havent seen here? also, may i ask why u say "hoping" to go back to anti depressant.. are you hesitant.. like me in trying again? Thanks for the tips on your response, one question for you. If i up my does of SJW to 2 pills do you separate? or can you take them together??

Effexor would be my choice, if i had to go back (which I may) my expereince may be different from yours if you take it, but since we have the common issue (anxiety/panic) ill tell ya bout me... i tried them all about 8-9 years ago (paxil, wellbutrin and another one, cant remember now) but I then swtiched doctors and too effexor then too cause i read about it myself and suggested it... but back then you could get effexor that was not extended release which allowd me to crack the pill in half to lessen side effects and ease into it so for about two weeks i took only 17mg. i spose..... which was great. I took effexor 37.5 XR then for a long time 3-4 yeras prob and it helped alot with anxiety.. i was able to stop taking ativan and slowlyl start living my life without anxiety.... but always hated the fact i was taking it......

for two years ive been anxiety and medication free. and now have issues again. Effexor now only comes in XR so you cant crack the pill in half like i did years ago to start it... so i took my first pill 2 a full 37.5 which a parmcist says is low... and didnt like the side effects in a 24hr period. i was nauseated and really really spaced out... my husband noticed - and so did i big time. it was very difficult to work. i had to take pepto every few hours.... So, i got the courage to try SJW last week since a parmacist told me it was milder... but i may .. just may suffer the few weeks of side effects of effexor for long term gain it did to me back then and my life years ago... keep in mind ive lost weight since i was on it last.. my body has prob changed.. so it really depends. but it is my back up if this does not work. and prob the only brand of an antidepressnat id use. if i had to. I dont think there is a milder one? for the last month im taking one SJW in morning. and an ativan at nite. i havent been able to kick that nite time panic yet... Im still trying to figure it all out... why are you tinking of switching??

[analea21]

Even though I've been on 600mg of SJW for a while (the brand is called Kira, and I am in the U.S.), I still have issues with anxiety. It helped to a certain extent, but I find that I have become avoidant of certain situations and people. Even though I'm glad that I have tried SJW and 5htp, I feel like it has not helped me the way an antidepressant can. I was taking ativan with SJW for 3 months, but I did not want to stay on ativan for too long. I still feel mild depression taking SJW. If I could take 900mg, perhaps it would have helped, but I have heard it can make anxiety worse.

Part of me thinks that I have developed a tolerance to SJW since I started taking it last December/January. I have decreased my dose to 300mg, and I am actually feeling pretty good this week. Yet, I feel like I need some more stability. I could be feeling good for a week, and then be down again. Of coarse, it's not as bad as if I was taking nothing at all.

My main concern with going back on an antidepressant is weight gain and decrease in libido. Did Effexor have any major side-effect for you?

In regard to your question about how to take SJW, you can take two pills or 3 pills at the same time. I think Kelly mentioned that in his introduction to SJW. I really hope SJW works well for you.

[analea21]

I'm not sure if most people are in the U.S. on this thread. I've seen some from the UK and some from Canada.

[Nishka27]

thanks for the reply, Im still in "testing" SJW - not sure if ill up my dose to 2 pills or not yet... still playing each day as it comes.. Im not sure if I will attempt back on anit depressant either yet, but will see in a few weeks/months maybe... I stayed on 37.5 of effexor, i never had to increase my dose the whole time i was on it 3+ years prob... I dont think the anti deppressant cause my minor weight gain at that time.. So my main side was prob sensitivty to light probably and the sexual side effects will some what apparent, but had the ability to skip the "odd" dose to help that... Let me know how it Goes if you Decide to go that route :) good Luck. oh and thanks for the SJW tip ;)

[greta7]

Analea,
My situation is kind of similar in that I've had to stop at 600mg of sjw because a higher dose brings on anxiety. But my main problem right now is depression. I think the sjw helps mildly but I still have like 6-12 days a month where I'm totally knocked down by it. I was wondering, did the 5-htp help any with depression? I was thinking of adding it just on those days. Btw - My partner has been taking Effexor for a long time, over 6 years and it has worked really well for her. She has no side effects now at all...

[Nishka27]

Greta - Ive been reading about 5-htp and L theanine... but its so hard to really pin down what works with what... Im still researching cuase i dont want to up to 600mg cause i know im going to end up trying something else with it...... whats your thoughts? i wish there was just a SLIGHTLY milder antidpressant... as Im a pretty petite person now, and my body didnt adjust to my first two pills of effexor this time (3 years later) so im trying SJW! Still pondering and keeping my fingers crossed to hpe Herbal route will work, but if not i will suck up the week or two of side effects.. gosh what a pain this is.. but im glad i found this sit e:)

[analea21]

5htp does help with depression and anxiety. I just wish it lasted longer than a couple of months to get benefits.

I'm on day 3 of Effexor, but after reading everything about withdrawal, weight gain, and sexual side-effects, I'm not sure if I want to be on any medication. I was thinking that what I could do is either try 900mg of SJW (since I did only 600mg before). Or I could try 5htp at 200mg for two months and figure out what I want to do from there. However, it would be so nice to have an antidepressant without the side-effects that works well. Nishka, did you have trouble getting off of Effexor? Was there weight gain?

My main issue, it feels right now, is the lack of connection I feel with people. The depression makes me feel like I can't be close with people. Either I have social anxiety, or a problem with isolating myself from others. It's real frustrating.

[Nishka27]

It sounds like we're pretty similar indeed... the main thing i noticed is that we seem to be struggling with a balance what we think/want to work for us.. Im REALLY struggling with that too. Im really unsure and lack of knowledge about 5htp and SJW - if together do they work the same as anti deppresant? i mean if it does why would we need effexor?? Trust me, i too am trying to NOT to take my first pill of effxor again.... why does 5htp poop out after a few months? and whats your feedback on this L-theanine? i read about?

My Past experience with effexor was OK.... it was long ago 4 years maybe ive been off of it.. From what i recall my weight gain was NOT caused by effexor ( i only gained 10lbs through out those years, and was my eating habits Id say ) coming off of effexor - Since I only ever took 37.5 mg... was a pain in the ass, is what id call it.... brain shivers were the most uncomfortable thing... but I did it in the summertime, when im most relaxed.. was easier! had a few beers during that weekend too.. lol Sexual side ffects.. i remember spreading my doses around my sex life... weird, but i was able to do it... weird.... I wish those effexor XR were "breakable" to limit the sideeffects of taking it again... how are you doing on your 3rd day? I wrote a book........SORRY lol

[analea21]

Nishka,
Taking SJW and 5htp did not work well for me. I know other people do it. What I would do is take them seperately. Since SJW works longterm, I would first see if that works for you. I would not take 5htp until you know if SJW works for you alone. What are you already taking? I was taking Kira. I got it off of iherb.com for cheap, however, I don't know if it's more to ship to Canada. I have not read a lot about L-Theanine (sp?). Again, though, I would wait to see if SJW works alone. I would also gradually go up on SJW. Take 300mg for a week, and then so on. See if you can get up to 900mg, because that should give you the full effects. If it's too much, then go for the 600mg like I did.

I don't know why SJW wouldn't do the trick and Effexor would. I am so not scientific, and have trouble following all the scientific explanations. Yet, I think Effexor and SSRI's are more potent. I think it's the difference between taking vitamin C, as opposed to eating an orange. The orange has vitamin C in it, but is not concentrated like a vitamin is. In regard to why some herbs stop working, some people on this site say that it's because when you get too much serotonin, it lowers your dopamine levels. This is why I think SJW may work better, because it boosts more than just serotonin. Nevertheless, what is happening when 5htp stops working that you build a tolerance. So, if you take more, it may keep working for a while; but taking too high a dose isn't good, so you'll have to eventually take a break long enough for it to work again. I think there are a lot of herbs that work this way.

What I think would work well for anxiety as you try SJW, is to take an herb like Valerian, Kava, or Passion Flower. You can also take ativan if you need something stronger. I took it for three months while I was on SJW. It worked well, and no bad combinations of chemicals occured. However, like anything, mixing and matching is always a risk.

About Effexor. I don't have the RX, and I am cutting the pill in quarters right now. I don't know why you wouldn't be able to get a hold of what you had previously. Are your doctors being difficult?

Today I'm not going to take another does of Effexor. I felt agitated yesterday, and I haven't been off of SJW for a week in order to get it out of my system fully. So, I am going to wait for a week before I go on anything. I'm crossing my fingers as I flush everything out of my system. Thanks for sharing about Effexor. And...I think I wrote a longer book than yours. :rolleyes:

[greta7]

Nishka & Analea,
Hi...
Analea, I know what you mean about finding it difficult to have a connection with others. When the strong depression comes on that is a real problem for me. It's like I know I need to be with people but I still feel lonely and isolated even when spending time with others. Then there are those times when that feeling is not so prevalent. It seems obvious, I do think it is a symptom of the depression.
I have been off and on with fish oil (omega-3 pill). I had been off for six months but then decided to try it again for the past 3 days along with the sjw (still 600mg). I do think I feel a little difference. Could just be placebo. But I do remember reading about the studies that have shown it to be helpful in treating depression. The claim is that omega-3's work to sort of "grease" the synapses making it easier for what seratonin there is to get accross them. So maybe the combination of sjw and omega-3s might be useful? Sigh. I dunno. I'll give it the 'ol try I guess... Good luck to you both too. :wink:

[Nishka27]

Hi Greta and anelea...

again, still taking the just 300mg of SJW now for 2 weeks.. still suffering from anxiety though... but today I went out and bought a "swiss" brand of B- combo vitamins (b1, b6, 12.. etc) w/ passion flower i think it is... and I had some very MINOR side effects.. (not sure id call them side effects) but it was apparent i had taken something... just mild dizziniess maybe... but I feel ok today... Not sure Ill need to take that ativan... *fingers crossed!!!!!!........IM seeing the Doc this week to discuss all the "herbal" things, to avoid going back on Effexor.. but Id still consider it if they made the original pills..my body is soo sensitive.. Yeck.!

[analea21]

Nishka, how is SJW working for you? I have thought that if I went to 900mg, maybe it would have worked for my anxiety. Has it helped your anxiety/panic?

I'm on my 3rd week of Effexor. I feel really tired in the morning when I take it. It's the first week I started at 37.5 mg. I think I'll stay at this low dose for as long as I can. I keep thinking about quiting and going back to SJW, but then I remind myself that I need something that will help with anxiety.

[Nishka27]

i have just gone to 600 (2 pills) a day now. Im not noticing TOO much difference .... Im feeling ok over all - I have a calendar just to rate my days... 90% of my days i feel like i need to take an ativan at evening to ensure a relaxing evening...So Im not sure I may switch to a different brand next time before i try 3 a day. Like you im just in a similar boat of being unsure ... I remember with effexor i lost the "need" to take ativan.. evenutally... So Im just wait another few weeks see how 2 a day works... Im going to see my doctor in 2 weeks again. so ill discuss more options again. I tried effexor 37.5 again a month ago - this time my body reacted differently to it (im smaller now is prob why) so I want to see what all my options are... how did 5htp work for you? n have u taken other ssris?

Im glad its working ok for you...being tired will definatly go away.... u still feel need to take ativan? like SJW - you have to give it a fair shake - and hold out for the 6 -8 weeks for sure!!! It sounds like its doign ok for you..??

[jardallas]

I noticed several persons discussing the use of 5-HTP and L-Theanine for anxiety relief. I have recently started using both and have noticed some positive effect thus far. I started on the 5-HTP at bedtime with fruit juice (few oz) to get across blood-brain barrier. Within 30 minutes felt sleepy and slept of until 3 am (about 4 hours). Fell back to sleep with effort. I learned about 5-HTP from a book entitled "Treating and Beating Depression" by Dr. Murphree. It is very informative. You can also check the website www.treatingandbeating.com where you can read more and determine if the book would be helpful. Anyway, I continued on the 5-HTP increasing 50 mg/nite and found that I could increase sleep time, up to 150 mg. But at 200 mg I started having anxiety. So I am going back to 100 mg to see if that does the same. May have to do a combination of day and bedtime. According to my reading 300 mg is the max one should take of 5-HTP.

L-Theanine does provide noticeable calming effect after 30 minutes (take on empty stomach). I take 150 mg several times a day. Not like any of the benzos but does help. You may consider GABA as well.

[tlcha]

My doctor has me on the 5 htp. I am taking 100mg now. I was on 400mg. It was too much, I felt awlful. My docotr says about after 3 months they wean you off because 5htp is suppose to balance serotoin and bring it up to level.
Also just atking 5 htp with out mucana pruiens which helps dopamine can wack out dopamine and make you feel yukky.

[jardallas]

Dr. Murphree in his book, "Treating and Beating Anxiety" notes that "some persons after being on 5HTP for a period of time (weeks or months) finds their improvement declining. This is most likely due to an increased awareness of other neurotransmitter deficiencies (norepinehprine, GABA, dopamine, etc). If this happens, I (Dr. Murphree) recommend adding 200-400 mg. of SAMe once or twice a day on an empty stomach."

Hopefuly this may be of assistance to some.

[jardallas]

A reference book that I have found helpful in my personal battle with anxiety/depression is "Treating and Beating Anxiety and Depression" authored by Dr. Rodger Murphree. Concerning 5-HTP and the issue of its diminished effectiveness, he states the following, "A minority of people find that after being on 5HTP for several weeks or months, their improvement begins to decline. This most likely due to an increased awareness of other neurotransmitter deficiencies (norepinephrine, GABA, dopamine, etc). If this happens, I (Dr. Murphree) recommend adding 200-400 mg of SAMe once or twice a day on an empty stomach. Hopefully this will be of assistance.

Personally I started taking 5HTP at bedtime (with fruit juice) about a week ago. According to Dr. Murphree, those persons having difficulty with sleep should take 5HTP at bedtime in this manner. I started with 50 mg and have worked up to 150mg as of last nite. I noticed this morning that I felt a little hungover. But think that could also be attributed to the melatonin I have continued to take. I will reduce or eliminate the melatonin tonite and see if that helps. For anxiety I take 150 mg of L-Theanine as Dr. Murphree recommends as needed (3-4 times per day on empty stomach). I have noticed that it does have a real calming effect for me.

[kingflow]

at 35 years old with problems like many of you when I was younger I read these posts and I must say I am in total shock..

It is like looking at a group of perfectionists looking for a magic pill that will make everything better...

Many of you are probably like me. You had parents or family that did not love you as much as you want or you had people in your life that were super critical or you built to super achieve... You look at life as if nothing is totaly perfect and you always tweak things in your life because you are never satisfied.

I tried every anti depressant 7 years ago hoping to find something that would make me more attached to the world around me. Then I realized that the result was only temporary so I stopped. I then accepted the fact that I was born into this world with less then great circumstances around me. That part of my depression or super achievement disappointments were built into my head. The pill was not a quick fix. Even if it was working..

So I took to therapy at $100 a visit. first therapist was terrible. I decided to try one more. And He was incredible. I was able to see that alot of my problems were ways I process info and think about things.. I realized I was greater then what I thought and as I went through this process I became more attached and in the moment in this world. it is not perfect but the road is better.

Why do I say this? because all of you that tweak and tweak and tweak your meds are not realizing that you will never get the perfect cocktail.. Use the natural route. Take SJW if you need it. maybe add some 5-htp for seratonin and maybe another item for dopamine. But understand one thing. if you give your body what it needs you cannot get upset when you do not feel great after you have the full level of what you need. This is not a time to change it up... This is a time to take responsibility for your life. Your anxiety or depression if mild-moderate is your bodies way of telling you to change something in your life.

if you take responsibility you will work out several times a week to release natural enorphins... you will stop eating food and drink after 7pm to reduce anxiety.. you will make the bold move to get away from someone mean to you even though it is scary so you can live again.. and you will make these changes understanding that it will never be good enough for you until you accept the fact that if it feels ok it may be just fine.

it must get tiring to always try new things...

sorry I had to write this. I am going to try amoryn because it has several items I want to try.. maybe my body needs more seratonin or something.. if i still have some disconnection from the world after 2 months I will stop.. but I will not stop with the therapy or the changes in my life or the working out because all of these make a difference.

[analea21]

I don't know about others, but I have done a lot of things in my life to beat depression. I've been in therapy for years, have taken risks in my relationships, and am not just looking for a pill to solve my problems. There may be some on this forum who have not had a lot of education about depression, and put their hope in a pill, but often it is because they've been told depression is a chemical imbalance, and is not caused by other factors. Nevertheless, it's important to keep in mind that you don't know what "everyone's" attitude toward SJW are on this forum without asking them. Depression is complex, and to say all depressed people are perfectionists, or were unloved as children is an overgeneralization.

[analea21]

Nishka,
I don't feel the need for ativan anymore. I've been on Effexor four weeks. I still feel tired a lot, but it's okay. Some of the other ADs I've taken were Paxil, Wellbutrin, and Celexa. Celexa worked the best, but there was some weight gain. That's why I'm trying Effexor, but I've read of people who do gain weight on it.

5htp worked well for 2 months. I was on it at 200mg. I took it in the mornings because it made me stay awake at night.

[greta7]

The New York Times did an in depth report that refers to studies done for those with both major and minor depression. Over and over again these studies show that for major depression, it is a combination of psychotherapy along with antidepressants that works best. I think that pharmaceuticals have their place. For some, they do their job and are not overshadowed by their side-effects. But in those for whom the side-effects are intolerable or for people who refuse pharmaceutical medication on other grounds, why not try these over-the-counter alternatives? Plus, for people with minor depression it seems antidepressants don't offer much anyway.
"Some studies indicate that antidepressants do not work that well for mild depression. Counseling or cognitive behavioral therapy may be helpful, as is regular exercise."
So, again, why not look to alternatives?
I just can't really take hold of a complete conspiracy that the entire field of mental health research is corrupt. Sure, there is a great influence by the drug companies as there is in the whole medical field, but does it mean we throw away all of the research that is available on these subjects? Some researchers must do their work with honest intent. I guess this is why I lean toward the notion that drugs (or alternatives: sjw, 5-htp, others) along with psychotherapy (Talk therapy, CBT, etc.) might offer a big help. I would add on all the other forms of self-care too: acupuncture, affirmations, excercise, reiki, a creative outlet etc...

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/symptoms/depression/overview.html

[Nishka27]

Im so glad u responded!! thanks for headsups up on which one worked best for you.. Im so glad Effexor is working for you, and I do recall that in notime i didnt require the need for ativan either.. i think like you, im getting tired of experimenting - so I just took myself off of SJW completely and see how my body feels -and im going to see my doctor about what LOWEST dose possible i can do in lexapro or celexa (if avail in CA) I would try effexor again, but you cant crack those pills in half to start at lower dose.. that was why i started SJW .. Im also keeping busier these days which helps -causes anxiety, but helps more! Weight gain would be teh least of my worries at this point if I went back on SSRI - id hope in years time -ID be able to come off it again anyway !! keep in touch!! r u still trying the 37.5... thats all I took for the 3 years i went on.

Nishka,
I don't feel the need for ativan anymore. I've been on Effexor four weeks. I still feel tired a lot, but it's okay. Some of the other ADs I've taken were Paxil, Wellbutrin, and Celexa. Celexa worked the best, but there was some weight gain. That's why I'm trying Effexor, but I've read of people who do gain weight on it.

5htp worked well for 2 months. I was on it at 200mg. I took it in the mornings because it made me stay awake at night.

[greta7]

Sorry all, I feel like I got carried away in my last post. Kind of a manic day...
Analea,
When you took 5-htp in the mornings, did it help you to sleep at night?

[analea21]

Greta,
When the 5htp started to work for me (took a couple weeks), I slept very well. At the beginning it actually made me really tired (the second week in, I think at 50mg).

[analea21]

Nishka,
I totally hear you about how weight gain doesn't matter when all you need is some relief. I know that feeling well. What was not working for you in regard to SJW? Were you still anxious?

If I was not doing Effexor, Celexa or Lexapro would be my first choice. I hope you find relief soon.

[Nishka27]

Analea - Im seein doc this tuesday. WIsh me Luck..hows it going on your end??

[analea21]

Things are good. I've been thinking that my social anxiety was getting worse because my depression was not being treated fully. It was never that bad before. I don't feel the social anxiety as much. I am still at 37.5 mg, and hope to stay at this dose. Once I feel like my depression is gone for at least 6 months, I hope to try to come off of it, and try SJW again. I hope to use SJW or 5htp as maintenance.

That really is a shame that you can't get a hold of the Effexor tablets you used to use. I hope you have a good visit with your doctor and that she/he listens to your needs and concerns.

[tlcha]

I wanted to know if your still on 200 mg of 5 htp?
If so how are you feeling?