Is it ok to combine SJW and 5 HTP

[star777]

Hi,

I am new here and I see I posted this question earlier on the wrong section of the board and should have posted it here.

So here goes: Is it ok to combine SJW and 5 HTP?

Does combining them help or hurt for treating depression, panic, anxiety?

Thank you so much!!

Marie:smile:

[andie42]

i am tapering of meds right now - but someone told me when i start sjw i should take the 5htp as well - so im curious about this too~ anyone taking both?

[Raze]

I actually just asked a pharmacist this same question today, because on my way to buy more SJW I saw some 5htp for sale and I never had seen it before.

She recommended against taking them together, and in fact suggested that I go off the SJW for a couple weeks to get it out of my system before beginning the 5htp.

Funny that I just asked and then later today saw your post! Hope this helps :)

[AmyLee]

I found an answer for you in this article:
http://www.doctormurray.com/articles/worteditorial.htm

[echelon]

The 5htp works better than the SJW in my opinion. SJW can make anxiety worse as well - I had to stop it due to it making me ill.

If you can't tolerate 100mg of 5htp just cut down to 50mg before bed. 100mg was making me jumpy and my heart was racing.

Don't take them together.

I personally think SJW is overrated.

[AmyLee]

Thanks for your post. I actually just took my first 5-htp today. I decided to quit SJW because it wasn't 100% helping, just partly, and why take something that isn't 100% helping, ya know? I hope I can find success with this.

[echelon]

Amy - are you taking Rhodiola Rosea as well? It's good for depression and lethargy and I find the 5htp and Rhodiola work well together - although you take the 5htp at night and the RR in the daytime.

[AmyLee]

No, I'm not taking Rhodiola at all.

[analea21]

I have been taking 5HTP for 4 months now (2 months I gradually went up to 200mg, then the effect wore off and I went down to 100mg, now I'm back up to 200mg--the effects wear off after 2 months). I have seen that many people on this site combine SJW and 5HTP. It has worked for a lot of people. However, both bring up your level of serotonin, so finding the right balance is the key. It is recommended to take them seperately first before putting them together so you know which one has what effect on you. I have been on 5HTP for some time, so I know exactly what it does for me.

By the way, 5HTP made me feel more jittery the first two weeks, but now it has a calming effect. So, take it slow when going onto any of these herbs. They are altering our chemical balance and it takes time to adjust to all of them.

[echelon]

I've never fancied combining 5htp with SJW. The SJW gave me terrible shakes and anxiety attacks. I'd be lying in bed trying to get to sleep and my limbs would give off these weird jerky movements! I got scared! Bad pounding heart as well :frown:

[Amazed & infused]

Started taking this combo 2 wks ago. I find 5HTP gives me more "oomph" to get up / deal with things during day, lower appetite + sleep at night as long as I don't take it after early evening (look into Serotonin ->Melatonin) and SJW is more subtle but chills me out. So far - changed my life. Do read up on it yourself though and bear in mind I only started 2 wks ago so it may kill me next week......
:dance:

[analea21]

I might post this on the SJW thread too, but I am taking St. John's Wort (900mg per day) and I am also starting to take 100mg of 5htp. I have been taking 50mg of 5htp with SJW all along, but is 100mg of 5htp too much?

[JasonInDallas]

Responding to an old thread here, but I was reasearching the same question and came across a formulation of capsules that has both SJW and 5HTP: www.vitacost.com/NaturesWayMoodAidwith5HTPStJohnsWort (http://www.vitacost.com/NaturesWayMoodAidwith5HTPStJohnsWort)

It's a reputable brand, although I realize that doesn't necessarily imply it's a useful combination for all people. That said, since they sell the two as a single combination, that it can't be all bad and probably is of some benefit to some people.

[DW23]

I might post this on the SJW thread too, but I am taking St. John's Wort (900mg per day) and I am also starting to take 100mg of 5htp. I have been taking 50mg of 5htp with SJW all along, but is 100mg of 5htp too much?

I take 300-400 mgs spread out over the day. I might decrease eventually but as for right now if I miss a dose I definitely feel the pain.

[Amazed & infused]

Hi - Yes an old question but as a longer time user now after 6 months I'm still using the SJW & 5HTP combination and would still recommend it for me though of course I can't speak for anyone else...
5HTP's strongest, immediate effects of energy and enthusiasm seem to wear off but the sudden attacks of despair don't seem to come back either when I keep taking it - so I do! 100mg once / day or twice if I need it.
SJW keeps my overall mood more positive and I can just about go without the 5HTP and get through the brief spells of hoplessness as I know they won't last. 5 HTP without SJW seems to be a bit up and down and feel a bit unstable but way better than without either.
Best wishes.

[analea21]

What are the dosages you take? I am doing the same combo. I take 600mg of SJW, and just started at 50 5htp. When the 5htp wears off, how long do you wait to start it again? Also, how long does it last for you--a couple of months?

When the 5htp stops do you stop taking it cold turkey since it doesn't work anymore?

Sorry for the load of questions!

[Amazed & infused]

Hi Analea21, Guessing you were asking me and so sorry for the delay:
1 tea 2g / day and 100mg 5HTP 1 / day.
I tried stopping both the 5HTP and SJW which was a mistake which (stupidly) took me a while to recognise.
I am planning to cut back a bit, maybe to tea 2/3 days and 50mg 5HTP.
RE dosage:
I use "Doctor's best" 5-HTP which contain 100mg 5HTP 200mg Vitamin C and 12mg Vitamin B6 per capsule.
I use Floradix SJW herb teabags which contain 2g of organic SJW but do not quote a controlled amount of hypericins or hypercium.
I brew the SJW tea in a pint mug until it gets cold to extract as much active ingredient as possible and because I prefer it cold.
I take SJW "High Potency" tablets from "Goldshield healthcare" which have 300mg Hypercium containing 900 microgramms hypericins each if I miss a mug of tea or can't be bothered to brew it.
Method:
I have gone from taking 5HTP twice daily down to taking it once per day and I take SJW tea once a day.
I never take 5HTP within and hour of eating and try to make it 2+ hours if I need more of a boost (happiness V hunger is a bit of a no briainer).
The last cold turkey was unpleasant so I am trying to moderate my use of 5HTP dependent on need and keep it at an average of around 1/day so if I am feeling good I don't have one that day (I went without 5HTP for a week a month back but kept the SJW going) and if I'm feeling particularly bad I may have 2 in the day.
I don't generally get the strong lift that I used to with 5HTP but get a mild one instead occasionally which is enough for me and I prefer (need) mild or no highs and mild lows rather than larger ones of both.
I do have to use some will power to keep to 100mg/day but feel that if it's sustainable then that's a good thing. Who knows, I'm still learning and have even started applying for jobs after 2 yrs out!!!
Think I should try plotting it on a spreadsheet or something mood V all the various variables lol

[analea21]

Thanks for the info! Do you know what 2 grams of SJW tea equals in tablet mg? I know a lot of people take 900mg of SJW.

[Amazed & infused]

Hi, Simplistically, 2g = 2000 mg (I'm 210lb) but Floradix do not quote a controlled amount of hypericins or hypercium though some say +/- 20%

Read on only if interested:talkface:
It may also be difficult to equate that to tablets due to losses in the brewing process & sunlight.
After a "quick" scoot round the net to answer your question, I see the advantage of standardised tablets. At least, I feel I need to standardise my approach or possibly grow my own SJW, eat the teabags or brew my tea (with whisky?) in the dark. lol
Apparently full sunlight will degrade 96% of the hyperforins in 5 minutes after extraction or lose 20% in 2 hours in dried herb (what changes since it was growing?) I'm guessing that indoors, in a mug I lose half +/- 50%.(http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/85010172/abstract) That's if you believe the extract quoted which seems to have it's sunlight units wrong.(/S?)...
I'm wondering whether my tea is sun dried as well as organic....
It should at least have all the good protective stuff in the total extract as well as the risky components EG flavonoids, caffeoylquinic acids which are not mentioned on my pill bottle.
Brewing tea may work as well as alcohol as Paskal use water extraction http://www.paskal-herbs.eu/UserFiles/File/MONOGPAPHS/English/aqueous%20extracts/HYPERAQUA.pdf but don't mention light but do quote (wrongly?) that their hyperforin increases lipid peroxidation, whereas the extract actually prevents this damaging free radical effect
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_peroxidation)
according to their own reference http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6R-4CG2JK5-3&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=37df54bed554123733f8724e4ef2245b
I wonder whether this photoreactivity of the chemical has something to do with the photosensetivity effect of SJW (perhaps lipid peroxidation in skin etc?)
Perhaps I've distilled the placebo content with my approach. lol
Probably need to learn to keep a lid on it. (Tea, e-research, hat, foot, mouth etc):read::wobblyeyes::talkface:
Any experiences from people using tea rather than pills?

[Nishka27]

Hi ANalea/ and amazedinfused..I wanted to know a few things... Im taking one pill of SJW a day for anxiety.. wondered abou thte 5htp you so recommend and are taking with it in combo... How long does it actually stay in your body? i mean is it more like an SJW that will stay in your body for 12/24hrs.... i assume it acts similar ?? u speak of both so differently? Im trying to figure out the difference between the too, and why i want to take 5htp? instead of... or in combo with.. me, being of panic/anxiety attackes?? i am also in canada so wondered if you knew where to buy.. have not seen it yet?:dance:

[Amazed & infused]

SJW - a few weeks, 5HTP - a few hours ???
:read:
Many drugs take a time to reach a peak concentration or effectiveness (which can be a minute or a month) and decline over time, often halving every hour / day etc (the half life).
I would say that SJW effects me for a matter of days whereas 5HTP seems to wear off in a matter of hours. If I had to guess at a half life, I would say SJW was about a week whereas 5HTP was about 2 hours.
I'm not sure how much of this is a guess from my own experience and how much what I've read.... Would need to check my references.
I use the two quite differently, taking the SJW pretty much any time during the day and not worrying too much if i miss a day, the effect seems to average out over several days and help general depression.
I take the 5HTP when I am not coping rather than feeling down and feel an effect (other than the immediate placebo relief) in 1/2 - 1 hour as long as I haven't eaten in the past hour (particularly protein rich food).
I would recommend starting 5HTP on a low dose at first as you may have a stronger reaction to it at first. Read around this site for better info.
I found that SJW took a couple of weeks to work noticably and 5HTP a couple of days to stabalise after a fairly strong reaction in a few hours.
Just to complicate things, the 5HTP effect seems to lessen after a few months IE a 100mg tablet will have less effect if I have been taking the same dose daily for a couple of months. This is another reason that I use 5HTP only when needed because I find that it stops working if I use it too much (I'd still start on a regular amount though to learn the effect).
I don't find that the effects of 5HTP and SJW are that similar, SJW gives me a more balanced outlook and longer term feeling of wellbeing. I find it harder to pin down because it takes longer to work and so is difficult to seperate from my overall mood. 5HTP on the other hand has a very clear effect on me, particularly when I am very down and / or in a rut.
RE panic/anxiety attacks; I tried taking 5HTP once to calm me down, it made me worse, but that was because I wasn't tackling the cause of the problem.

Once I started using 5HTP to give myself the oomph to get on with dealing with things, it worked brilliantly. I believe that this is due to a lack of Seratonin giving me a reward for doing something constructive. Without the Seratonin and reward, I stall.
I found it useful to take the 5HTP regularly at first (see my earlier posts) to learn what it did for me.
The two things that 5HTP miraculously cures in me are the "oh my god I can't face the world / bills / friends etc" feeling and my churning things around in my head without getting on and doing something about it. That's me though..........
As always, I would advise reading up lots, trying things carefully and learning what works for you. I am learning when my moods are caused by a lack of something and learning what to do about it but the same tool (drug/sunlight/exercise) doesn't fix all my ills all of the time. Good to have a few more in the toolbox though.
I would suggest buying it online, read up on this site for the best brands and order some from somewhere that is recommended (and so is genuine).
Best wishes.
PS: analea21 - I've started using SJW tablets 3/day and think I feel an improvement although life is looking up at last and cause / effect is difficult to seperate. A few bumps but still on the upward spiral thanks to SJW, 5HTP, Kelly and all. lol :dance:

[Nishka27]

I loveded reading your post! that was very awesome to see such a positive post!!! *awesome!!!!

[robertz]

It's odd you say 5-HTP only lasts for 2 hours, because I feel the maximum effect around 2 hours after taking it. Some people say 5-HTP starts to lose its effect after 2 months (+/-) but that is because dopamine gets depleted, so if that happens you need to supplement with dopamine precursors (phenylanaline, tyrosine, mucuna...). This is not my opinion, this is what I read from Dr. Michael Murray in his book about 5-HTP. And he got that information from a scientifical study. Also, I can confirm the study by myself. 5-HTP doesn't stop working, because it is not a drug that only works while it is in the body, it is like food for your body, you won't die if you stop eating for a couple of days, or even a week...

Something VERY important about 5-HTP is the brand you use. I started with Solgar, then Nature's way and currently NOW Foods. Solgar seemed to work very well for the first days, Nature's way (enteric coated) didn't work for me AT ALL. And NOW Foods, well, Now Foods is the best brand I've tried. If I have a very hard day, I take a 100mg capsule and I even feel happy.

Robert.

[VerityMac]

I've decided to go back to taking 5HTP and combining it with SJW and possibly DL-phenylalanine. I know some people disagree with taking SJW and 5HTP together due to possible serotonin syndrome. I do think that the precise combo I'm going to take (have taken in the past) is okay as they are sold as a tablet (both SJW and 5HTP in the same pill).
5HTP is the only thing other than prescription sleeping tablets (which I don't want to take) which really helps me sleep ! it gives me weird dreams and the effect doesn't always last all night, but it's better than the few hours sleep I get at present ! :frown:

When I last took this combination I felt slightly worse depression wise but this was very short lived as I soon got more positive and found that energy to do things I need to do.

If anyone has any really worthwhile tips regarding help with insomnia please do tell me ! PM me or link me to appropriate thread !

Thanks !

[VerityMac]

Robert ! :smile:
If you don't mind me asking, are the Now brand of 5HTP available in the UK online do you know ?
Thanks !
Verity.