depression and party drugs, by brite_eyes00 (+4 replies) [Archive]

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Kelly

19th February, 2006, 02:54 AM

Topic Title: depression and party drugs - Jan 8, 2002
<table width=100% cellspacing="1" cellpadding="5" border="0"><tr> <td width="26%" bgcolor=#dddedd valign=top> <table width=100% cellspacing=0 cellpading=0 border=0><tr valign=top><td align=left>
brite_eyes00 <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/faces/Fish.gif" border="1" width="32" height ="32" ></td><td align=right> </td></tr></table></td><td width="74%" bgcolor=#dddedd> <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/icons/posticon.gif"> "depression and party drugs" , Tue 8 Jan 11:14<HR SIZE=1> Ok I had to bring out some of my past memories that might be related to depression. When I was 19, I started smoking pot with friends and my boyfriend who would take LSD. So anyways, I experimented with pretty much everything for a couple of years. Then I stopped cold turkey and moved; went to college and made some sacrifices. My personal life was always pretty much of a roller coaster ride. Now I'm 29 years old and looking back at my life and some of the decisions I've made good or bad; I'm wondering if there are any links to my depression with party drugs that I took years ago. I have heard that the side effects stay with you. I feel like I was a confident,easy going and happy person. Now with time I've turned into a workaholic, and a bit anxious and paranoid. If people didn't know me, they would think I am a bit stiff although that's on occasion; most of the time I'm pretty open. I really miss my old self, the self I sacrificed, the self that everyone loved and adored. I take sjw now but if anybody knows that if I've been altered by taking drugs or have had similar instances like mine, please share them with me...Thanks!

<HR SIZE=1>Posts: 25 | | Registered: Sun 1 Jul 2001 22:13</td></tr></table> </TD></TR><TR><TD bgcolor=></TD></TR><TR><TD bgcolor= >
<table width=100% cellspacing="1" cellpadding="5" border="0"><tr> <td width="26%" bgcolor=#eeeeee valign=top> <table width=100% cellspacing=0 cellpading=0 border=0><tr valign=top><td align=left> Batman <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/faces/Batman2.gif" border="1" width="32" height ="32" ></td><td align=right> Home Page <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/home-1.gif" border=0> </td></tr></table></td><td width="74%" bgcolor=#dddedd> <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/icons/posticon.gif"> "Re(1):depression and party drugs" , Thu 4 Apr 02:37<HR SIZE=1> You may be right, in that the recreational drugs caused some effects later in life. But don't write off the fact that as you get older you have more responsibilities. When you were 18 you were cool and had no cares in the world. But when you're 30 you have seen a lot, gone through a lot and had a lot of stressful times making it in the world. Sometimes the pressures of a house, family, career, and kids can be correlated with the anxious and paranoid behaviour too. It could be a combination of the past and the present...

<HR SIZE=1>Posts: 7 | | Registered: Thu 4 Apr 2002 1:23</td></tr></table>
<table width=100% cellspacing="1" cellpadding="5" border="0"><tr> <td width="26%" bgcolor=#dddedd valign=top> <table width=100% cellspacing=0 cellpading=0 border=0><tr valign=top><td align=left>
Bodderz <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/faces/Fish.gif" border="1" width="32" height ="32" ></td><td align=right> </td></tr></table></td><td width="74%" bgcolor=#eeeeee> <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/icons/posticon.gif"> "Re(1):depression and party drugs" , Thu 10 Jan 06:22<HR SIZE=1> I have just found this forum because Im looking for a users forum for Venlafaxine which I have just been subscribed. I was taking SJW for 2 months but it did not have any effect as fas as Im aware. Anyway, my depression and paranoia is linked to taking recreational drugs Im sure of it. I smoked hash daily from age of 18 - 26 and between ages of 21 and 26 I regularly took pills (MDMA) and LSD. Now Im 33 and I have a great job and a house and a partner who I love and trust very much - BUT - Im always so darn depressed!! And I shouldnt be. I was never depressed or paranoid before. But I just took too many drugs and Ive been suffering ever since!!

<HR SIZE=1>Posts: 0 | | Registered: Thu 10 Jan 2002 6:12</td></tr></table>
<table width=100% cellspacing="1" cellpadding="5" border="0"><tr> <td bgcolor="" width="6%"> </td><td width="20%" bgcolor=#dddedd valign=top> <table width=100% cellspacing=0 cellpading=0 border=0><tr valign=top><td align=left> Dupont <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/faces/USAHockey.gif" border="1" width="32" height ="32" ></td><td align=right> Home Page <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/home-1.gif" border=0> </td></tr></table></td><td width="74%" bgcolor=#dddedd> <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/icons/arrow.gif"> "Re(2):depression and party drugs" , Thu 10 Jan 06:52:<HR SIZE=1> Maybe this info from another site will help. Dopamine...is the neurotransmitter responsible for attention,pleasure,alertness, mood, etc...basically, if you use stimulants (speed, cocaine, meth) you are increasing your dopamine levels which creates the desired effect. Anything that plays with dopamine is very addictive. Serotonin-affects mood, appetite, sleep, senses, etc. Ecstasy floods your brain with serotonin creating the euphoric feeling; all your senses are heightened to touch, sound, and taste. Serotonin is also responsible (along with other factors) for depression...depression=not enough serotonin. You want to have healthy levels of these neurotransmitters because if you don't you can be depressed or suffer other mental disorders (not to mention speech, memory, and learning disorders). The best way to achieve healthy balances of these neurotransmitters is to not do drugs, and let your body repair damage. There are some things you can take to help your body out though... for serotonin...find a supplement called 5HTP; it is an amino acid, and it is the precursor to serotonin in the brain (5HTP is turned into serotonin). If you can't find that, look for an amino acid called tryptophan; it is the precursor to 5HTP. for dopamine...take an amino acid supplement called phenylalanine (precursor to dopamine). Amino acids are food..so there is no danger or harm that can come from taking these supplements. for overall good health, just find an all in one amino acid supplement....it will help. choline is the precursor to acetylcholine, a stimulatory neurotransmitter. It is only a useful supplement if you feel your acetylcholine levels are low or depleted. The neurotransmitter GABA works to keep your body from getting overly excited (if there were no GABA you would die of convulsions) Taking 5-HTP after MDMA trip helps, it converts to serotonin in your brain so it will somewhat relieve the deficiency created after the MDMA effect.
 MJ DuPont http://events.diabetes.org/memberpages/peshka
[this message was edited by Dupont on Thu 10 Jan 06:53] <HR SIZE=1>Posts: 189 | | Registered: Wed 20 Jun 2001 6:19</td></tr></table>
<table width=100% cellspacing="1" cellpadding="5" border="0"><tr> <td bgcolor="" width="10%"> </td><td width="16%" bgcolor=#eeeeee valign=top> <table width=100% cellspacing=0 cellpading=0 border=0><tr valign=top><td align=left> tgrusso78 </td><td align=right> Home Page <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/home-1.gif" border=0> </td></tr></table></td><td width="74%" bgcolor=#dddedd> <IMG SRC="http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/graphics/icons/posticon.gif"> "Re(3):depression and party drugs" , Mon 12 Aug 07:33<HR SIZE=1> MDMA should also raise dopamine levels as it is related to the amphetamine drugs. Just my .02

<HR SIZE=1>Posts: 2 | | Registered: Mon 12 Aug 2002 6:54</td></tr></table>
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sfe

14th April, 2006, 06:11 PM

first of all sory for bad english so ı suffer from ecstasy problems
12.31.2004 ı took 2 pills (ıt was the third time I took ecstasy in my life)
ıt was like ı was dying. Soon I learned that all the symptoms were the panic attacks. After that moment depression and anxiety began. I went to dr. because I was thinking I will do get mad. He gave me zoloft one times aday.Xanax one a day for a month. It was good until the depression came back. Again I saw my dr. Zoloft:2(100 mg.)
Now I m taking 150 mg. zoloft and buspirone 20 mg.
Well depression : little-moderate but anxiety:high
I have mood swings.
Todays I think to buy amoryn-seredyn
I don't know if it will work but I must say that it was the biggest mistake to take ecstasy.

Ben

15th April, 2006, 07:35 AM

I took Ecstacy only 3 times in my life. First time it didn't work. Second time it was amazing, unbelievably good, one of the best days of my life even to this day. A week later (long after the drug wore off) I still felt great. I knew MDMA was once prescribed by therapists in the UK for it's emotional effectiveness (making people love each other again) so I had to try it again at a big party. Third time I tried it I saw danger signs everywhere, saw flashes of death, took some alcohol with it, didn't sleep for 3 days, pretty sure it wasn't MDMA it was speed or something else, or a mixture of the two or *who knows*. Not a safe drug that third time, they told me it was Ecstacy.

Yeah it causes some problems but more for heavy users of it. A lot of drugs allow you to "think your way" almost anywhere, so therefore you can think your way back to normality again without taking any more drugs or at least natural ones if you really have to. I prefer the natural life, like the high you get from fishing in a stream in the summer - but still I can't kick the habit entirely, I still like a little bit of weed for a relaxing evening every now and then.

But some drug use causes permanent damage. Here is an extreme case I read about recently. There was an excellent news article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Story/0,,1746333,00.html?gusrc=rss) by the Guardian Unlimited about doctors at London University treating an extreme case. Someone took about 40,000 ecstacy pills over nine years and then finally went to a hospital. Some days he took 25/day. It's amazing he's even alive. He has some brain damage and short-term memory loss but is doing remarkably well considering being so extreme.

So I think you can get through this. Many drugs can teach us things, sometimes they are things we don't want to see or shouldn't see. Many drugs are bad, but some can go either way based on your experiences. I have seen some of those bad things and I have a new respect for "pills" especially when they are mixed with alcohol. If you can lessen your mood swings in some natural way you'll be a cool cat again.

Ben.

sfe

21st May, 2006, 06:20 PM

Hi,
Sorry for bad english
I m writing from Turkey and my question about ecstasy which I used 3 times all my life.There was no problem with the first 2 but when I took it for third time the problem began.
On 31 December 2004 I took one pill and 3 hours later one pill again. One hour later after the second pill the anxiety began( which I learned that it was an anxiety soon)my arn and leg got and I felt like I was dying. After 5 hours I was well the had gone. But at that time my heartbeat speed up and I culdn not breath.
3 days passed from time to time with heartthrob.
One month later I was feeling very bad( feeling sad,low interest or pleasure,loss of energy, going mad)
So I went to a psychiatrist who gave me zoloft one a day.One month I took it and I was so so but one day when I got up I was very bad the depression came back again I went to dr. and he increased to two pills zoloft.
So, ıt passed 1.5 years. Now I take 3 pills(50 mg.) zoloft and 20 mg buspirone one a day.
I have mood swings. One day I m fine but the other 3 days bad. I suffer from anxiety much more depression.
I must say that before the ecstasy I think I had a generalized anxiety disorder, social anxiety disorder and OCD with bad sleep(nightmares).
As you see the treatment can be very difficult for me.
I want to be as I were before.
What can your recommendations be?
Must I get a neurotransmitter testing?
Must I continue taking zoloft or look for another kind of treatment like herbs?( I heard that amoryn gives good results)
Note: I treated OCD and SAD almost but GAD and a moderate depresssion continues.
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Kelly

27th May, 2006, 04:58 PM

I'm not sure what to suggest, but sometimes party drugs like Ecstacy just open the door to other problems that you may have already had beneath the surface. I don't think something like Ecstacy would have a permanent effect on you at all, however, especially if you only took it three times. The mind takes a while to heal from any experience, and drugs that cause a bad experience can mean it takes even longer. But you can get through it.

Kelly

sfe

28th May, 2006, 04:54 PM

Dear Kelly,
Thank you for your reply.
I think like u.
Ecstasy caused the other problems that I got before.
Nowadays I feel better(I dont know because of zoloft or my neurotransmitter levels get better) but it is very early to say Im well.
Because one month can pass good but then the depresiion may come back.
Let's see what will happen.
By the way I take care of to eat all kind of food which includes such vitamins that I need and drink much water.
But the problenm is I still drink alcohol two days a week.
But absolutely no ecstasy, cannabis or another illicit drug.
Because when I hear about these things I feel anxious and don't want to see any news or anybody about ecstasy.

sfe

30th July, 2006, 06:27 PM

hi, guys
ı must say that todays ı feel much better,hopelessness had gone, yes I still suffer from a mild anxiety, but absollutely not thinking about being
mad( may be nonsense but ı was thinking ı ll be mad) nowadays ı search for vitamins which can be helpful for me, ı still take 3 zoloft(50 mg.) and buspirone(20 mg), ı drink much water, care to take food with vitamins,and thinking to do some exercise.

ı wish all of us will get rid of this **** illness
no boredom, continue to fight...

as always sorry for bad english

sfe

30th July, 2006, 06:41 PM

conclusion: never but never don't try drugs like ecstasy
it is the way to kill your brain and yourself

generic

20th November, 2006, 11:33 AM

I gotta agree with batman.

You are 30 something and you have to take on the hardship of the real world. The wrong job can be very stressful, as can just having to take care of things in life.

Some pot and LSD in your past when you were 18 shouldn't have a long term effect. It sounds like you are dwelling on the past and regret some of the things you have done. I know I have that feeling. I probably only smoked pot 5 times in my life, but one time (the last time), I got a bad trip from it. At the time, I felt like crap, but even the next day, I was fine and it had no lasting effects on me.

Some of the other dugs mentioned are another story. The LSD might be a problem. I guess it depends on how much you took and if you had a really bad trip that you remember and dwell on today. You might have a PTSD from it, but I doubt that the drug (that is probably long gone) is causing your current problems.

Try not to freak out about your past and try and focus on the future. This is for the pot, lsd user. Some of the other party drugs are a totally different story and they can really mess with the brains chemistry and they can very much cause mental problems. I have never tried them and I am so glad I haven't. As someone who has only touched pot and alcohol, I feel extremely lucky. I really feel sorry for the younger kids that thing that taking all these party drugs, mainly meth, think that no harm will come of it. They are taking some very dangerous stuff.

I don't endorse pot, but I've done a lot of history on it. I don't believe that pot alone could cause problems. If you drank and smoked pot, then that might be a different story, but pot, like sjw has been used for many years without lasting harmful effects. People who have problems are ones that used pot with other drugs. Many successful people use pot only (they don't even drink) and they don't have any problems at all. I know a few, and you would never know they smoked up until you invite them over for a party. Pot doesn't = depression. In fact, the right dosage and type of pot can be used to help fight depression and insomnia. It's illegal though, and I don't mess with it now days. Some states have medical marijuana too. Like all drugs, moderation is the key. If abused hard core, bad effects can come of it.

Pot was the main choice of drug during prohibition. From what I understand, people had less problems using that as a main choice for a mind altering drug then alcohol. Alcohol is actually a poison. Pot is a natural drug.

OffTheRadar

30th November, 2006, 02:16 PM

I agree with Kelly that many people with depression/anxiety, self medicate with party drugs. I believe many of these people don't know they are suffering from depression. I certainly didn't.

I tried extasy some years ago, it was a good experience but its worth mentioning that the evening after i tried it I felt the strongest desire I have ever felt before or since, to take it again. Since extasy is not thought to be physically addictive I figure the craving i experienced may have had something do to with a deficieny in my system...

Amazed & infused

26th May, 2008, 12:45 PM

Anyone who decides to take SJW, 5HTP etc is is quite likely to be doing so as "self medication" in other words they are making a more or less informed decision to take a supplement that affects the working of the brain to get a beneficial effect for themselves.
If marijuana is prescribed for pain relief, MDMA for emotional problems, amphetamines for weight loss etc then in some cases and some countries there is a legitimate legal and prescriptive framework for use of these drugs and possibly an argument that "self medication" (in a country where it were legal to do so of course) may be justifiable.
Some people decide for themselves regardless of the law and some say that they'd go crazy if they couldn't go down the pub for a pint when they wanted to.
If you decide to take anything then it is worth knowing the likely effects that it may have on you and to monitor what helps you and look for side effects.
Awareness of the effect of a drug and your emotional state as well as past experiences and current situation is something that you can learn from books, others etc and sometimes only from personal experience.
Doctors will have an understanding of the effects of drugs (and their legality) on the majority of people but not necessarily the effect that they will have on you.
Treatment of psychological illness by drugs is often by trying them, in that a drug is tried and treatment continued if it works or stopped if not, IE the doctor/psychiatrist/etc does not know in advance whether the drug will work on that individual. It may be that the same goes for SJW, 5HTP etc.
Depression is a diagnosis of a symptom (melancholia) not the cause, whereas the drug normally has to work on the cause. If you are depressed because of low serotonin then something that raises your serotonin level may work. If that is not the cause and you just need a friend and a chat, then a pint down the pub may be better.
It may be that some people take MDMA as self medication and that either the increased serotonin or support from others in a similar state can be therapeutic. I expect that that the vulnerable mental state can also be damaging if in a less supportive or confusing environment.
What makes an environment supportive can be more volatile under the influence of drugs and so both bad and good experiences are likely. Bad experiences can cause PTSD whether caused by drugs or experiences.
In "conventional" therapy, past experiences can be brought up and be upsetting. Bringing up experiences during use of legal or illegal drugs is likely to also be potentially traumatic. The environment in both therapy and/or drug use can mean that the effect is either positive or negative.
If you used to take illegal drugs and feel that something is now missing, there may be an alternative experience/drug that could fill the gap.
There is some evidence that use of MDMA can lead to longer term lowering of Serotonin levels so 5HTP may be a better approach and possibly supportive after MDMA use, but this does not necessarily apply to the emotional effects either positive or negative.
Regarding pot being "natural" and Alcohol being a "Poison": most beneficial drugs are poisonous in excess as are many beneficial situations. Abuse of going down the pub (alcoholism), smoking pot (paranoia, schizophrenia etc) or PTSD from LSD are not to be underestimated. All kill or cripple one way or another.
If you are feeling vulnerable then I would recommend experiencing / talking to knowledgeable, intelligent. compassionate, open minded, cautious people regarding whichever drug / behaviour or experience you have had or are planning. This goes for therapy, counselling, drugs etc in my opinion.
I have personally learned a lot from both good and bad experiences but often not immediately. The learning has taken time, thought and mistakes but there is no panacea - nothing works for everyone and sometimes it seems that nothing works. Time and supporting friends seem the best medicine for me when all else fails.
I find 5HTP very helpful and suspect that I have a naturally low level as I have had sleep and mood problems since childhood.
I'd be cautious listening to opinions from people with little specific personal experience - it often means that they either know little, fear the unknown, did it wrong and so had a bad experience or follow mainstream treatments/"wisdom" with out questioning. It's right to be very cautious but sometimes when mainstream treatments are not working, you may be better off thinking outside the box. Bear in mind that you are therefore taking more responsibility for your own treatment and that this carries risks but probably allows more scope for a different range of treatments.
It may also muddy the water by adding an additional variable into what's causing your mood.
If you are not comfortable with what I've said above, stick to your doctor's advice. listen to it anyway.
Keep sharing your experiences - I'm so glad I found 5HTP from a friend telling me.

HerbVerbage

26th May, 2008, 06:30 PM

Ok I'm going to present to you an alternative perspective and you are 1) not going to like it and 2) not going to agree with it. Thus why it's an alternative perspective and far from the norm or anything remotely politically correct (you might want to find the number for D.A.R.E. and/or get the 911 ready on your phones ahead of time). I don't expect you to agree with it and would be stunned if you did. When I was 14 I was going to committ suicide, I was done thinking about it and had made up my mind to do it, I figured if I was going to kill myself then I should at least experience what the whole drugs thing was really about before I died. So, at 15 I took acid and started smoking marijuana. This radically changed my life and I started investigating these substances to find out what the safe dosages were and reading other people's experiences and such. Anyways, along the way I stumbled upon the history of many of these things and started learning about their long ancient history of religious use. I found that fascinating and read up all I could on it. "Things" are no joke, if you respect them they will respect you, if you don't respect them but you try to take them as some party thing, they will beat the living daisies out of you. This I read about and then learned about first-hand.
So anyways during the 90s I did those things for visionary religious purposes instead of just trying to get "high". They are still used in clinical sessions for healing purposes. One of the first things I had to learn was that "drugs" were like anything, there was good & bad. I did a lot of both. If you are not a brave soul and aware of what you were in for, then it's no wonder that they clobbered. The bad is heroin, pharmacueticals, methamphetamine, crack cocaine, ecstacy, pcp, etc. Those will only harm your soul, and those substances alone give all substances a bad name already, and this society would do a lot better if those drugs were put altogether and catapulted into outerspace in a glass capsule. However there are others, Ayahuasca, Dmt, Psilocybin, mescaline, lsd, dxm, Ibogaine, datura, hash, and marijuana. If a person does not respect these powerful plant allies as having the power to harm them, then they will abuse even these, and likely die as a consequence, either physically or mentally. Their life will be a sad thing from then on out unfortunately. But if a person can actually acknowledge that those will take their ego and stomp it out on the ground for all to see, then maybe, just maybe endured some kind of religious experience (like I said, you will not agree and likely be offended). That is my only point, unfortunately this basic knowledge is not taught to you in school and you do these things anyways in the hopes of catching a buzz. Not necessarily your fault but it is you indeed you who ends up suffering over it, isn't it?
If you find this alternative perspective interesting then you have passed preschool and are ready for elementary level. I'll share with you some books which I've read that will help:
When the Impossible Happens by Stanislav Grof, Shapeshifting by John Perkins, The World is as You Dream It by John Perkins, The Doors of Perception & Heaven and Hell by Aldous Huxley, True Hallucinations by Terence McKenna, Food of the Gods by Terence McKenna, Breaking Open the Head by Daniel Pinchbeck, 2012 the Return of Quetzalcoatl by Daniel Pinchbeck, The Teachings of Don Juan by Carlos Castaneda, A Seperate Reality by Carlos Castaneda, Journey to Ixtlan by Carlos Castaneda, The Ring of Power by Carlos Castaneda.
I truly believe that if you have never read any of those books then you are in a lot of trouble if you did lsd, etc. I'll bet you feel that you saw another side to life that most people don't see and are picking up on some telepathic surface that you shouldn't be. Perhaps ate of the fruit from the "tree of knowledge of good & evil" which we all know is off-limits? One thing I've realized now is that drugs are what humans do; coffee, cigarettes, klonopin, codeines, vicodins, oxycontins, ephedra, cough syrup, phentermine-containing diet pills,wine, beer, aspirin, Saint John's Wort, Rhodiola Rosea, etc. how many of you have one of those items in your purse or cupboards? How many cops, how many doctors, how many schoolteachers I wonder, etc. are breaking out of the same-old same-old routine just for a few minutes for some kind of a head-change, just to remember that they're still alive? No one likely knows and people developed some strange habit of not telling, probably because nature itself has been made illegal. I thought I'd include a passage from a book called Acid Dreams for you, even though by this point many have probably called 911 and are definetely not going to read it:

Aldous Huxley felt that the "scientific" approach was utterly hopeless. "These idiots want to be Pavlovians," he said, "[but] Pavlov never saw an animal in its natural state, only under duress. The 'scientific' LSD boys do the same with their subjects. No wonder they report psychotics." The practitioners of psychedelic therapy, on the other hand, were cognizant of the complex interaction between set and setting, and they worked to facilitate insight and personal growth.
Of course, even the best set and setting could not always guarantee an easy, pleasant, or uncomplicated experience. The goal of a therapeutic session was not to have a "good trip" per se but to work through emotional, creative or intellectual blockages and further the process of self-discovery--an ordeal that could be very painful at times. Certain schools of psychotherapy--R.D. Laing, for example--recognized that "freaking out" might actually herald a positive breakthrough to a new level of awareness if properly integrated by the patient.
The "perilous passing" through the chaotic realm of the bummer was structured into the drug rituals of primitive societies as part of the sacred "vision-quest." The key figure in the hallucinogenic drama was the shaman, the witch doctor, the medicine man (or woman, as was often the case) who gave song to dreams and provided spiritual access for the entire tribe. A connoisseur of the drug-induced trance state, the shaman derived his or her strength from confronting the terror of ego death--the quintessential trial by fire that was seen as a necessary prelude to an ecstatic rebirth, the resurrection of a new personality.
The drug experience informed every aspect of life in traditional cultures. With the aid of hallucinogenic plants the witch doctor cured the sick, communicated with the spirits of the dead, foretold the future, and initiated young people in coming-of-age rites. The use of mind-altering substances within an ethos of combat and aggression was also common in primitive communities. Whatever the specific purpose, the shaman always employed the hallucinogen in a ceremonial context. An elaborate set of rituals governed every step of the process, from gathering the roots and herbs to preparing and administering the brew. The power plants were often poisonous and could be fatal if not prepared properly. Only a ritually clean person who had endured weeks or months of prayer and fasting, often in isolation from the community, was deemed ready to ingest these substances. Because of the shaman's familiarity with states of consciousness induced by hallucinogenic drugs, he or she was considered qualified to pilot others through the experience.
"Primitive man," wrote Huxley in 1931, "explored the pharmacological avenues of escape from the world with astounding thoroughness. Our ancestors left almost no natural stimulant, or hallucinant, or stupefacient, undiscovered." To Huxley, the urge for transcendance and visionary experience was nothing less than a biological imperative. "Always and everywhere," he asserted, "human beings have felt the radical inadequacy of being their insulated selves and not something else, something wider, something in the Wordsworthian phrase, 'far more deeply interfused'...I live, yet not I, but wine or opium or peyotyl or hashish liveth in me. To go beyond the insulated self is such a liberation that, even when self-transcendence is through nausea into frenzy, through cramps into hallucinations and coma, the drug-induced experience has been regarded by primitives and even by the highly civilized as intrinsically divine."
The use of mind-altering drugs as religious sacraments was not restricted to a particular time and place but characterized nearly every society on the planet (with the possible exception of certain Eskimo and Polynesian communities). For the Aztecs there was peyote and ololiuqui, a small lentil-like seed containing lysergic acid; the Aborigines of Australia chewed pituri, a desert shrub; the natives of the Upper Amazon had yage, the telepathic vine. Those who floated into a sacred space after ingesting these substances often projected ecstatic qualities onto the plants themselves. Certain scholars believe that the fabled Soma of the ancient Vedic religion in northern India was actually the fly agaric mushroom, and there is strong evidence that ergot, from which LSD is derived, was the mysterious kykeon used for over two thousand years by the ancient Greeks in the annual Eleusinian Mysteries.
---------excerpts from Pgs 64-66, Acid Dreams; The Complete Social History of LSD: The CIA, the Sixties, and Beyond, by Martin A. Lee and Bruce Shlain

DW23

20th September, 2008, 03:31 PM

I probably only smoked pot 5 times in my life, but one time (the last time), I got a bad trip from it. At the time, I felt like crap, but even the next day, I was fine and it had no lasting effects on me.

I don't endorse pot, but I've done a lot of history on it. I don't believe that pot alone could cause problems. If you drank and smoked pot, then that might be a different story, but pot, like sjw has been used for many years without lasting harmful effects. People who have problems are ones that used pot with other drugs. Many successful people use pot only (they don't even drink) and they don't have any problems at all. I know a few, and you would never know they smoked up until you invite them over for a party. Pot doesn't = depression. In fact, the right dosage and type of pot can be used to help fight depression and insomnia. It's illegal though, and I don't mess with it now days. Some states have medical marijuana too. Like all drugs, moderation is the key. If abused hard core, bad effects can come of it.

Pot was the main choice of drug during prohibition. From what I understand, people had less problems using that as a main choice for a mind altering drug then alcohol. Alcohol is actually a poison. Pot is a natural drug.

I'm not sure I would compare pot to SJW like you do generic. Pot may be a plant and thus "natural", but most pot is grown under very unnatural conditions. Think hydroponics, grow lamps and nutrients. I was a heavy pot smoker for 3 or 4 years and the stuff I smoked was very strong.

There are plenty of people who have problems with marijuana and the effects it has on their lives, just like people have problems with alcohol. I've never heard of anyone going into rehab for using SJW.

Amazed & infused

22nd September, 2008, 11:41 AM

I'd recommend using what works for you not focusing on what should be OK because it is "natural" or "prescribed by an expert" (especially on line) though do listen to them (add a pound of salt).

Chemicals and experiences don't affect everyone in the same way.
Depression may be "natural" or caused by environment, experiences or chemicals ingested or a combination of the above but it's still "bad".
Alcohol is a natural product of yeast, THC of Cannabis, Sylocybin of magic mushrooms, Atropine of Belladonna and so on. There are many other natural "poisons" from jellyfish, death cap mushrooms etc some are used as medicine.
Natural bee stings kill some people, cure rheumatism in some and barely affect others.
The brain is far more complicated and less well understood than the reaction to bee stings.
A small amount of natural death cap or a large amount of natural Alcohol will kill you.
Is PTSD natural but "bad"? Are tigers bad because they can kill you?
Placebo effects are natural and often beneficial, Diazepam (synthetic) doesn't reduce anxiety in patients after an operation unless they know they are taking it (Ref: New scientist 23/08/08) so is that a natural effect? Does it matter?
Learn what works for you. Carefully
Be very aware that there just may be a sting in the tale of that bottle of (whatever) pills and they only have a probablility of the expected effect. Genuinely good luck and wishes to all..........